The Problem with Pure Builds: Official Discussion...

[SpellAndShield]

I've been reading lots of threads about pure builds and I have experimented around with several so I thought I'd start and official discussion on them.

 

In my brief experience pure builds don't work as well as mixed builds for several reasons, but let's look at the three types, Rogue/Warrior/Mage.

 

Rogue (easiest in my opinion)

 

Obligatory Skills: Alchemy, Sneak, Archery, Onehanded

 

Helpful Skills: Light Armour, Pickpocket, Lockpicking

 

Advantages- Sneaking at higher levels makes you very hard to detect, with the right bonuses from sneak x6 onehanded+15x dagger damage+ dark brotherhood gloves x2 backstab you are looking at some serious damage potential and with high sneak and appropriate gear you can one shot most opponents with a single dagger swipe or dual daggers for a x60 damage bonus. When archery is properly maxed out it can be very effective though not as much as daggers but bows have the advantage of distance making you harder for enemies to detect.

 

Disadvantages- With this build you are relying on stealth kills 90% of the time, whilst this is definitely possible with high enough sneak, sometimes you have to face enemies and they will quickly tear through your light armour and you have almost no CC abilities, meaning for such encounters you are dead.

 

Mage (2nd esiest)

 

Obligatory Skills: Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Restoration

 

Helpful Skills: Illusion, Enchanting, Onehanded, Archery (for conjured weapons)

 

Advantages- with the right choice of race, imo. either Altmer (1st) or Breton (2nd) you will have the best prerequisites for a magic user, destruction magic can be very damaging plus if you get the stagger perk you can use destruction for CC in addition to damage, destruction furthermore allows for damage to mutiple targets. Result is overall probably the best offensive magic school. Restoration has many defensive advantages, ward for example plus the invaluable healing factor involved to keep you alive, and the passive magika regen boost so restoration is an overall win. Conjuration is the best CC because enemies will fight your summoned creatured, at higher levels you can have multiple summoned zombies and ceatures so overall very useful. Alteration gives you those armour spells as well as the passive absorb magika, which is very useful.

 

Disadvantages: No armour=quick death, giving your magika more boost than health can also lead to a quick death and because stone flesh and ward spells cost magika, you lose your offensive capacity and unless you cheat a lot, you WILL run out of magika and be forced into run and gun tactics and the meter regnerates, in such cases archers will quickly pick you off as well as mages and if a melee enemy gets too close to you forget it as well. Very powerful for a short while and afterwards running away a lot.

 

Warrior (most difficult)

 

Obligatory Skills: Twohanded OR Onehanded+Block, Heavy Armour, Smithing

 

Helpful Skills: Alchemy (yes, because alchemy does not cost magika allowing you to solely level up stamina and health and you get health potions, resist potions and poisions for your weapons out of it)

 

Advantages-a pure melee fighter has heavy armour, a huge battle axe that can stagger and decimate opponents who come close, certainly a quick death for many basic enemies. He can take punishment better than the others due to heav armour and higher health. In a way they look the coolest as well ;).

 

Disadvantages- If all you have is a big axe or sword and shield, you have to close the distance with enemies, which can be tough with archers and even harder with nimble mages, all the while they are pelting you with ice spike til you drop dead. A pure melee warrior relies on CQC and that is not alway a given and even in such cases where you are just in CQC, if you have multiple opponents you might have a problem. The warrior also has ZERO CC ability, certainly nothing on par with a mage but at least a rogue can skulk back into the darkness, a warrior fights to the death and it can happen quite often. By far the hardest pure build because of a lack of healing and sneak.

 

That would be my first overview but in terms of effectiveness mixed builds are factually just BETTER. A rogue with advanced illusion can CC very well likewise if he has conjuration skills. A melee warrior with destruction and restoration can take and give out punishment much better than a pure warrior and can also has CC+ranged damage, etc.

 

Still I like the idea of pure builds and I am currently running an Orc twohanded meleer but as an example I was up in the north and got my butt kicked by a vampire with a war axe, destruction and conjuration magic. By the time I ran up to her I lost half my health and she finished me off with her war axe.

 

Hopefully we can have a good discussion.

[babis8142]

meh... I just play with two-handed, bows, one-handed + shield, one-handed + one handed, destruction and the game allows me to do so without punishing me

[PointBlankPB]

For my first character I've actually taken the stealthy approach, one handed, archery and sneak with some points in light armor. What I should probably do is make more poisons as I rarely use them. Also my love for axes has kinda ruined the stabby stealth daggar approach however it has made me stronger against multiple targets in combat as war axes do a fair amount of damage and bleeding. I will be working my way up to the ability which allows me to disappear from detection upon crouching. Whirlwind is a good escape tool.

 

Also I just started leveling a 2H weapon warrior with heavy armor and smithing. I must say, I've had a much easier time with him. Also remember the whirlwind shout negates the need to take damage before hitting your enemy, pretty much instantly blasting you into his face. (It has a fast CD so you can easily switch to unrelenting shout once you've jumped for example)

[AdamScar]

It feels like the game is meant to be played mixing up classes. One of the developers said you can do what you want without being punished for it since you are what you do (you do what you have to do to survive and since your doing it you get better at it and keep surviving).

This does work but if you want to make a specified char who you plan out before the game you run OOM and die. ^^

[Amaze]

I'm also playing an orc warrior and I get my ass handed to me on many occasions. I've been oneshot by a big spider and there was a witch who 2shot me with exploding fireballs. I found the best strat was to sneak as far as I could and run in like a madman and start wailing on her. For some reason she stopped casting fireballs when I was in her face. Maybe she takes damage from the explosions as well.

 

Anyway, I think this is what Bethesda wanted. Like they want you to mix styles and not get punished if u pick one style and later find out you don't like it.

[soot00]

Yes I could be a full plate wearing, 2 Hand Axe wielding, Fireball caster class....but this would make the game too easy.

 

What I try to do is look at a class build from a previous game I played (Shadowknight from Everquest, Rogue from WOW, Paladin from Neverwinter nights, etc etc) and use them as a template to build my Skyrim toon

[Monglor]

I don't think blacksmithing is a warrior skill per se, it's more of a civilian skill. I'd have said the four skills for a warrior would be two handed, one handed, block and heavy armour. I think if you specialise in just a two hander or just a weapon and shield you might not die in battle but you might well die of boredom. Or maybe go two handed weapon and archery.

 

I think you could put together a reasonable pure civilian character too. Alchemy, speech, blacksmith, enchantment. Now that would be difficult to play.

 

Overall I don't think the game likes pure classes, because pure classes are very much niche operators and they are quite unrealistic within the framework of the game. I mean sure a warrior might be at home on the battlefield, but you're not going into battle, you're going up a mountain or into a dungeon or whatever. And a pure mage might be great at doing research in the college, but of course he's compromised when he's up close and personal with a bunch of tooled up brigands. The rogue has the potential for versatility, as a class in gaming terms it always has done, but that said if you did play it 'pure' you're going to lose any fight that accidentally becomes fair.

[SpellAndShield]

Thing is, I still haven't gotten any shouts yet so...that's a problem...,)

[ventrilol]

Same thing for me Op, pure orc warrior without shouts, except that I use a shield and one handed axe at all times. You can get that arrow imunity shield perk I believe and craft frost\fire\ whatever resist potion and works well when trying to reach casters. I think warrior is the easiest way to go, mage second and stealth char last.

 

the orcs berserking racial is VERY Overpowered imo.

[dewcakes]

I am using a mix of all my favorite skills but its kinda kicking me around, losts or reloading after dealth. I have magika stacked for spells and almost no armor so Cqc is rough. Skills in order of use for me: Sneak, achery, destruction, restoration, onehanded. I can usually get health down to about 1/4 before im forced into cqc, (hate running to much) but groups take it to me. Im starting to think armour might be nice but im gunna stick it out a little longer. I think the pure builds are sweet but I kinda want to do everything I can in skyrim with one build, I think a mix gives you more options and for tactics, which makes the game more interesting after investing countless hours. There is only so many ways you can rush into a battle with a 2-handed war axe, but if you have stealth, illusion, blocking, long range skills, etc. the posibilites are endless. I was leaning for 3 seperate pure build before the game was released but after a couple days I think I can still enjoy the game to its fullest with a good mix. True I dont get to max perks in any one class, but many of the perks just are not needed for my style. skyrim rocks.