Modding Checklist

[Antagonistic]

In my opinion, the following is needed for a powerful modding community:

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, this isn't a list of mods I would like to see, this is a list of mods and tools and utilities I would want to CREATE mods I would like to see.

 

1. Creation Kit

 

Obviously, the Creation Kit is needed to unleash real modding ability. Anything involving quests or dialog or new areas items and stats will require this in order to work.

 

When it will be released is anyone's guess at this stage. Fortunately, there are still mods we can create without it.

 

2. A Mod Manager

 

Its simple enough to manually install mods (if you can find the directory in stream/steamapps/common/skyrim/ that is), but a proper mod manager would be appreciated. I am looking forward to Nexus Mod Manager when its released to the public, though in longer term I would also like for BAIN to be ported to Skyrim for the additional power for powerusers.

 

A proper mod manager, and thus making it easier to install and experiment for users, would assist the community greatly, even if the types of mods for the moment will be limited.

 

3. Extractor

 

We need a way to extract the resources from the game. Fortunately, it seems that tools for Fallout works well here.

 

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34

 

So, while this could use a Skyrim branded tool, this is solved.

 

4. Model Importer/Exporter

 

Unfortunately it seems that Skyrim uses a new .nif file format. Attempts are underway to decode it and it should result in a new nifscope version soon. Should allow model editing beyond just swapping around textures as we are able to do now.

 

Great work so far throttlekitty. While it is sad you cannot run Skyrim at the moment, I must say it is to everyone else's benefit that you are working on this instead of playing Skyrim during sleepless nights like the rest of us. :)

 

5. OBSE for Skyrim (SSE?)

 

Arguably one of the most important mods in both fallout and oblivion, this would GREATLY expand the ability of scripts to affect the world.

 

No idea how long this would take to develop. Best case would be if Bethesda develops all we need into the base engine without needing anything 3rd party(something that will be essential for XBox mods), but the existence of OBSE, FOSE and NVSE suggests either a poor track record or ambitious modders, both suggesting the need for a 3rd party solution.

 

6. UI Import/Export

 

Despite the Skyrim UI using flash (a big boon to UI modders), progress on that front is still spotty.

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1267229-modding-the-gui/

 

Based on that thread I call that a UI importer/exporter would be needed to properly mod new interfaces. I don't think it will take long.

 

7. Better bodies

 

Love or hate the nude mods, HGEC or the like, they are the basis for all number of armor, equipment and animation mods. Creating a better body mod won't take long once the nif format is cracked, but the development and agreement of enough mod developers on a reasonably common standard to use for rigging of new equipment will take much longer. Sure, you can use the default ingame models to rig your equipment to, and many will, but I for one am a little underwhelmed by them.

 

 

 

Any other ideas for the developments we still need to grant Skyrim the same modding power that is currently available to both Oblivion and Fallout?

If there is interest in this thread I will attempt to keep it up date, add new points and strikeout the completed points.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Antagonistic

[achos]

I'm a total newb to modding, but would like to try something with textures.

I'm a fairly capable illustrator/artist I'd like to give a shot at altering some outfits.

I don't have a clue as to how to extract textures, repaint them and send them back in.

Please help?

[Antagonistic]

Glad to see newcomers to the modding scene.

 

Till the new nifscope fixes are done textures is the easiest and one of the only mods you can create without knowing what you are doing.

 

To start, download http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34 and target your Skyrim bsa for extraction.

 

By default this would be ( C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Skyrim - Textures.bsa ).

 

Once extracted, the files will be nice categorised and in proper folders. Locate the file you wish to work with. It will be a DDS format file.

 

If you have adobe photoshop you can use this plugin to work with DDS files: http://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop

If not you should be able to find one for your favourite graphics program.

 

In order to install or distribute the mod all you have to do is copy the file into the correct subfolder in the Data folder (creating folders if they do not exist). When the game is launched these will be used instead of the textures stored in the BSA file.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Antagonistic

[achos]

Sounds easy enough, will give it a try. For starters I gonna try and tweak this http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=239# outfit.

Soften it up a bit, we'll see how it turns out.

 

Thanks mate

[nasragiel]

A mod manager would be much more simple if Bethesda would have done something to enforce conventions. The simple dogma "Convention over Configuration" is a very good one to follow. The have not done so I would suggest to enforce somehow else a strict convention for mods. This means that a mod should come in a exact defined file and folder structure with maybe a file that describes the mod package.

 

A mod package filename should also always follow a convention for example modname-<version>-<version-uuid>.zip this would look like "foobars_texture_mod-1.5-48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66.zip". The name would use underscores while the section of the name would be separated by a dash. This would make it very to the user AND mod manager (by the uuid) what he has to deal with. The uuid would also allow sites to keep a database of them to identify packages and their version. I personally *hate* the chaos of different file names and formats so much for the existing mods. They're meaningless in 99% of the case.

 

For example a mod package should always look like this internally:

 

modname-<version>-<version-uuid>.zip
| - packageInfo.xml
| - Skyrim/
  |- somefile.dll
  |- Data/
   |- ...
|- ...

 

I would suggest to add a xml file to each mod that contains any info, version, author, its origin (download url, update url), dependencies. Also I think a mod should have a unique uuid for the mod itself. The benefits from this would be that the mod manager could check for updates based on the update urls (there can be more than on as a fallback) and it also could resolve dependent packages based on the dependencies information. So you download a mod that requires 2-3 other mods, the mod manager can resolve them and download them. Who is familiar with linux package managers should get the idea. The file could also contain a section listing version uuids of mods its known to be incompatible with. Version uuids over the main mod uuid because a future version might work with it

 

The only disadvantage with this is that it would require that modders accept and follow the convention and add the required package meta file. But writing such a file should be pretty easy using xml and not take more than 10 minutes for anyone.

 

XML example:

 

<ModPackage>
<Uuid>59f57730-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66</Uuid>
<Version>1.0</Version>
<VersionUuid>b78a5ff0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66</VersionUuid>
<Author>your name</Author>
<Origion>http://mods.com/mod/48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66/package.zip</Origin>
<UpdateUrls>
	<UpdateUrl>http://mods.com/mod/48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66.xml</UpdateUrl>
	<UpdateUrl>http://mods.com/mod/48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66.xml</UpdateUrl>
</UpdateUrls>
<Description>Some nice descriptions for your mod, could be maybe written in markdown syntax?</Description>
<Dependencies>
	<Dependency required="false">http://mods.com/mod/48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66.xml</Dependency>
	<Dependency required="true">http://mods.com/mod/507202a0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66.xml</Dependency>
</Dependencies>
<CompatibilityIssues>
	<IncompatibleWith>48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66</IncompatibleWith>
	<IncompatibleWith>48746ac0-1115-11e1-be50-0800200c9a66</IncompatibleWith>
</CompatibilityIssues>
<ModPackage>

 

If people are to stupid or lazy to write the XML file a mod site could handle this and write the info based on the form data entered on the site when the mod is uploaded. The site could also check if the package structure is valid and accept or reject the package.

 

If somebody wants to pickup my suggestion for this I would write the web part of this if somebody requests my help with that, it's my profession. ;)

Edited November 17, 2011 by nasragiel

[Brandim]

Hi everyone, i am pretty new to modding and got a question right to the start, is it possible to play around with some aror stats? For example giving a Leather Armor a higher Armor Rating and Stuff?

[Antagonistic]

Sorry Brandim, right now the Creation Kit is needed to modify any ingame stats.

 

Other than hacky mods like FXAA you are limited to INI mods and texture mods, hence the point of this post, keeping track of all the releases and changes that are needed to be able to mod many more aspects of the game.

[strazytski]

I played oblivion and fallout for a good time but they where healthy with mods. skyrim is brand new and so many mods i fell in love with in oblivion. I plan to learn to try moding and port those mods to here.

 

 

Argonians may of been improved but also been down graded. when they sit their tail does not bend or curl to fit in the chair instead it clips though.

 

also when running the tail swings back and forth as if its stiff. and tail has stuck up in the air when I once died.

 

which leads to this I would like to see or make a mod that unstiffs the players somewhat.

 

I have many more things I would like to see or learn to make.

 

 

 

cold death - if not wearing proper clothing in right areas you will be weakened and move slower over time where your life is almost over you crawl a bit ( downed enemies animation) and you die :)

 

See you sleep - player actually gets into bed. and strink the sleep popup (an mod from oblivion)

 

Footprints - you would see your prints in snow/dirt would be good addon (someone else requested this)

 

increase finishing moves - make them more often

 

better timelapse - make the sun move correctly instead of having shadows still then move a bit ( its very noticable. )

 

Character expressions control - control your characters face :)

 

add more relationship characters - more Argonians and ADD cat people

 

 

So yea have a lot I want to see so am willing to give making mods a try.

Edited November 17, 2011 by strazytski

[Moraelin]

Well, bodies are good and fine, but I really hope for some new faces. I mean, a fine body is like a pint of fine beer: to really be perfect it needs a great head on it ;) Desuchan's Oblivion stuff was grrreat, as were a few others. And the She race (grown up) from the Shojo mod for FO:NV was a much better head than Obsidian's any day.

 

Especially the elves are somewhat of a disappointment in Skyrim.. Not as big as the DA:O elves, but... they look kinda alien, don't they? I miss Ren's elves.

 

And haircuts. We need great haircuts. Whatever happened to the fine Norse tradition of washing and combing lots? These guys and gals look like a bad hair day epidemic :P

 

And here's one simple idea that I'd love: some invisible helmets that still count as being part of some set like iron / steel / elven / etc. I don't even need them to actually have any damage resistance, just count as the helmet part of the set for that bonus.

[Antagonistic]

Hmm, really should have named the thread 'Mod Creator's Checklist'. I think I'll edit the first post to make it clear.

 

I agree, better faces ARE needed. However, no mods (other than maybe eye and hair mods?) require better faces. Armor and clothing mods however would be based on better bodies (or stock bodies).

 

@nasragiel: The mod format issue isn't really a Bethesda one, its a Mod Manager one. Only way Bethesda would be able to enforce it is to have their own mod manager, where right now it is copying files to the right folders and then maybe ticking stuff in launcher in the case of ESPs.

 

The .omod format worked kinda how you describe, and I'm sure there will be a similiar format for the Nexus Mod Manager when it is finally released. The problem was with BAIN and so which added extra features to their formats (which I actually preferred), as well as some who release the mods in no format whatsoever and just insist you copy files correctly.