LE Dual Wielding Improvements

[cppcooper]

I was upset when I realized I wasn't going to be able to block any attacks until somebody made a mod. I would also like to be able to evade by strafe-jumping out of the way; I guess I could just say by dodging, but that might inspire images of action movies where the hero jumps into the air while dodging an influx of bullets then begins to shoot of course. Getting off topic..

 

It is pretty simple, this is mainly about negating and avoiding damage.

 

The list(can be added to)

 

* Block

* Parry

* Riposte

* Dodge

 

3.a, 3.b, and 1.c are my preferences on how dual wielding would be best improved. Combat in general actually.

 

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Controls:

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Section A

Timing Based:

 

Some of these are naturally going to be better solutions than others, but may not be easiest. This will be up to the mod creator to decide. It is not our place, but we can certainly get creative and try and solve the design ahead of time.

 

1.a) Tap the side you wish to block with

Makes the ability to parry more difficult

 

2.a) Tap both sides at the same time

Makes implementing the ability to parry more difficult

 

3.a) Tap Independent Key WITH Mouse(Post #6)

Conditional outcome

*L-Parry

*R-Parry

*LR-Riposte

~Wishful thinking aside, this may not be very believable due to animation limitations. If anybody can say contrary please chime in.

 

 

 

Section B

Trade Offs & Other

 

1.b) Hold the side you wish to block with

Lose the ability to one hand power attack

 

2.b) Hold both sides down at the same time

Lose the ability to power attack with both weapons at the same time

 

## (3.a & 3.b) are really meant to be implemented together

 

3.b.1) Hold Independent Key for Block(Reference: 3.a)

- Two handed blocking only

 

3.b.2) Hold Independent Key WITH Mouse(Post #6)

- Cooldown on attacking with the defending hand

- Cooldown on attacking with the other hand if it was a power attack

- Automatically jump to the side(Legend of Zelda style) after a power attack comes at you and you block it with one hand. The idea would be as soon as it makes contact with your weapon that you jump at the same time because you can't prevent all of the attack from doing harm without moving as well

~These are just some methods I've thought of to balance this method of blocking + make it more believable in all circumstances

 

 

 

Section C

Dodging

 

1.c) Double & Triple tap WASD

Make a small jump in the direction you double tap or farther / faster by triple tapping

 

2.c) Press Action Key + Direction at the right time

When you are about to be hit you have a short window to dodge out of the way

 

 

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Balancing Concerns

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Highlights

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Section A) The timing section is already balanced, as it requires an outside level of skill in order to apply. It will naturally be a bit of a challenge to master, and an even greater challenge to apply 100% of the time. Please raise any concerns of your own.

 

3.a) & 3.b) Three is by far the most flexible design; I saved the best for last. A and B should be implemented together, since they are really just extensions of one another. For balancing reasons it should be B.1 and not B.2

 

3.b.1) Since it is two hands for blocking only, I can't see how it would have any balancing issues other than the ones that come inherently with modifying the mechanics of the game in general. That is what for difficulty mods are for though, to make the game a bit hard to make up for things. I know that is what I would do if I could block.

 

3.b.2) It would require additional balancing because of the ability to block an attack with just one hand. Imagine a large Orc attacking you viciously with a battle axe, and you being able to block with just one hand, and a weapon while dual wielding. Being able to simply block the damage is unbelievable unless you're character's name is Hercules or Zeus, or maybe The Kraken.

 

In my opinion, realism and believability trumps finely balanced mechanics; balancing is still important, and 3.b.2 would cross that threshold of importance.

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1.b) One b has the same balancing issues as 3.b.2

It does, however, trade off power attacks for this ability.. so it isn't as unbalanced as 3.b.2

 

2.b) Two b is a bit more balanced compared to one b. You can only block one way, instead of two, and it trades off a two sided power attack for the ability to block. So any remaining balancing concerns are made moot by the fact you just traded your enemy being dead sooner for fending off his attacks for longer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quick comments on Parrying.

 

Since parrying and riposting are deflecting damage outright, and avoiding any damage(maybe not with ripostes, but it does damage the other person)

With that said, I think it is only logical to force people to time them just right else have them attack.

 

Since not every attack will have a suitable angle to have parried, I think it should have the person evade instead. Throw up a deflecting attack while dodging to the side. It doesn't really matter though since one way or another the enemies' attack still has to be analyzed. It would actually be best to just leave Parrying out of it all; I only mean this for the creation of it. It would be cool though.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Sagenth

[Zachcuden]

I think removing the power attacks is a terrible idea. They are very very good. Especially the double. I would like to see block and parry but honestly i wouldn't give up power attacks. Especially since some of the perks directly relate. Now your other idea was have another button, but that wouldn't work for people using a controller. I'm ok with how it is now though. It makes master difficulty a breeze if you invest in armor and health.

[cppcooper]

True, it wouldn't work for people who are using a controller, but key combinations would, now wouldn't they. :P

 

As for the power attacks, I wouldn't want to be with out them either.. but they seriously piss me off. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to make a quick attack and it ends up turning into this long drawn out motion. I mean with dual wielding, the reason I picked dual wielding was so I could play as a rogue / thief and eventually add the arts of assassination in there. All of which are agile, quick in and out types of play. :ninja:

 

I could get into a big debate over why this or that, but like I said I think the key combination is the best method. Those who play with a controller.. should have gotten a console. Just making the point; there are going to be LOTS and LOTS of mods that don't add new game mechanics to the game, and they should be very happy using them. Game mechanics often needs keys to be binded to though, so I can't say I feel sorry :confused: for those playing with a controller yet want additional mechanics.

 

If you have any ideas on how to make dual wield blocking possible for those with controllers perhaps you can suggest them. I will add them to the OP :happy:

[Zachcuden]

Haha hmm hold both triggers for dual power attack which would be the equivelent of shield bash (as in the holding part not the pushing part, out would still do that crazy powerful attack) and tap (without holding or else it would turn into power attack) both at the same time to block meaning you have to time it :) Edited November 16, 2011 by Zachcuden

[sy19890515]

where did u download the mod? can u give me the link? thx

[MShoap13]

Fourth Option: Incorporate an action key (like all of the great combat overhauls see: Deadly Reflex; Unnecessary Violence 2). Make blocking be Action Key + Mouse Button(s)). Edited November 16, 2011 by MShoap13

[Zachcuden]

No mod yet we were talking about ideas. That action key would work as well. But im guessing for controllers only my way would work without being awk. Except maybe not being able to use a dragon shout and dual wield block at the same time and just use that button. I personally like controller more until I absolutely have to use mouse and keyboard like oblivion.

[MShoap13]

True, it wouldn't work for people who are using a controller, but key combinations would, now wouldn't they. :P

 

If you have any ideas on how to make dual wield blocking possible for those with controllers perhaps you can suggest them. I will add them to the OP :happy:

 

PC Modders make mods for PC gamers. Play with a mouse and keyboard like the rest of us or do without some of the best mods...

 

Also, I'm not 100% sure as I only played Skyrim for a few minutes on my controller but I believe the R1 Button (or RB for XBox kids) is currently unmapped.

 

Edit: Also, Favorites Hotkeys support for Controllers. That is all.

Edited November 16, 2011 by MShoap13

[cppcooper]

I agree that modders generally make mods with PC controls in mind. I was trying my best to be friendly while pointing that out. Didn't want to shoot the thread in the foot after all.

 

I updated the OP.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Sagenth

[cppcooper]

I made the OP a little bit more readable while I was at it all.