Total Realism Overhaul

[Deleted2558536User]

Initially the mod will have modules which you will be able to activate or not depending how you like them. Later on I plan on having an ingame configuration menu, whether only available at start or not, we'll see. I'm leaning towards the "available at start" idea, but because the mod should drastically alter some things this may mean people will discover they are not liking something later on, when they have already invested in their character, and I'd hate to force them to restart the game just to change options to their liking.

 

Yeah there is that problem. However I am sure you will figure a fair system. The configuration Menu will be the ultimate goal. As an idea the menu could some how be integrated into a book.

 

When it comes to potions, there will be a few changes:

 

1. Weight revamp in line with my weigh+volume inventory overhaul, so yeah, you won't be able to carry a whole apothecary in your pockets.

2. Healing, Magicka and Stamina potions will no longer be instant, instead they will take time to take full effect.

3. Pending testing, potions may be more difficult to make, require more ingredients but also be much stronger. Something special you take perhaps even before a difficult fight, so that, for example, your flesh regenerates or you have much better stamina? We'll see.

 

I don't plan on overhauling alchemy from the grounds up, at least not initially. Once I have most of the other features in, I'd love to revisit crafting in general, since it could use some modding love too.

 

As for leveling, what I have in mind is eliminating health, magicka and stamina gain altogether. Instead, I would like to place a much greater significance on actual character skills and equipment. What will save your hide in a tough swordfight should not be a fat HP buffer, but good armor and defensive skills. What makes a great mage should not be how much magicka they have, but what they can do with what they have. So skill levels should determine how much stamina your power attacks spend, or how much magicka your spells use (this is already in, but not accented enough) and that should make the difference, not the stamina, magicka or health pools you build over time.

 

I don't think it is possible to eliminate leveling up altogether, I think that's hardcoded. Besides, perks are useful and fun and actually represent your character's growing prowess nicely.

 

This will also mean that, minus your better gear and skills, a lowly bandit can kill you at endgame just as easily as at the beginning, because you won't have ten times as much health as you had when you started out. This should hopefully keep the challenge up throughout the game, at least in a more realistic manner, without the need for HP and gear NPC scaling.

 

It should also keep those damn wolf packs interesting. Especially if there are more of them. ;)

 

This does look like the best solution. I can't see any faults with it, at present.

[CampanaAliquanta]

It should also keep those damn wolf packs interesting. Especially if there are more of them. ;)

 

:(

 

Do not like wolf packs. Getting mobbed by them on the road is just unrealistic and annoying. I like the suggestion someone else made that they only attack if in a large enough group.

 

Wolves are territorial animals, so alternatively it would make sense to have them only attack if the player nears a certain point (e.g. a cave or rock overhang where their "den" is located).

 

I'd suggest FPV for horse-riding as well.

[0utk4st]

Everything sounds great and can't wait for it for it till the creation kit is out .

 

One thing i would like to ask is that make the options optional so we can choose which one we can put on and which we can leave out that would be great! (if possible ofcourse)

[Dichotomy754]

I was thinking about various methods to do away with the gui and still have the information you need, if any of these have been suggested already consider this an endorsement of the idea.

 

 

Health- This is a relativity easy one, blood splatter, nothing too obtrusive or have some settings with it, like red tint of the screen as well

 

Stamina- I was thinking that stamina will still be important as a stat for a burst of quick speed, needing to rest a bit to be able to do it again (performing attacks that drain stamina should also drain the rest meter imo) when the character gets lower and lower on stamina he starts panting more and more

 

Mana- The OP mentions doing away with mana, I'm not a big fan of the idea, so if it's toggleble then the loss of mana could be displayed by the dimming of the spell effect in your hands

 

Shouts- This is a hard one , I was thinking maybe a slight ear ringer that gets quieter as your shout power recharges, or a vignette that slightly narrows your field of view and slowly widens

 

Food- Stomach growling ;-) the hungrier you are the more frequent

 

Water- I was thinking maybe coughing?

 

Sleep- Eye drooping, when you start to get tired your eyes will sometimes start to close a little bit and flicker back up, the more tired you become the more your eyes start to close and the more frequent it happens (hope I explained that well)

 

Cold- Shivering sounds, both male and female, with teeth clattering and moaning when you start to get hypothermia in colder temps

 

Sickness- I think it would be cool if all the different sickness, simulating different symptoms

 

 

Side not: please add clokes! They should be equipable with all armor (or some for heavy and some for light) but be much more effective with light armor

 

 

So just some things I thought would be cool, I dont have any knowledge of modding so I dont know how viable any of this would be

[PapaStalin]

while thinking about the balance and scaling problems, so evident in vanilla, i had a similar general idea as Bearget.

 

we all came to this thread because we want a more "realistic" challenge, or something that makes sense in every aspect of the game. Atm ill focus just on general difficulty player vs enemies

The way i imagine a "realistic" elder scrolls game is that every type of creature has a general balance versus any other type of enemy. (not that they are always exactly the same, but a general balance, than fine tuned by individual skills and gear.

 

Dragons would obviously be on the top of the food chain, and no matter what level you are, or what gear you have, that should not change drastically. Obviously, as you progress in gear and skill, you would be able to take on more and more challenging enemies, but just to a certain point. I mean, if you engaged 10 average bandits in open combat, with all of them hitting you at the same time, you should die a miserable death, no matter how well geared you are.

 

For example a playing character should be of a same general balance as any other humanoid in the game. As you progress in skills, you will be able to better utilize your armor for example, or deal harder blows with better weapons, but should not make you 10x more powerful.

 

In order to solve this issue of overall balance of player vs npcs in terms of damage dealt and received, i believe a possible solution would be the abolishment of leveling up in a traditional sense.

if there is only one "level" than it should be relatively easy to find a very good balance. That doesnt mean PCs would not improve, you would still level up your skills, still invest perk points, and get better armor, its just that you would not see that level up message.

 

I know it sounds weird, but it can work. Basically we would progress in all the important ways (skill, perks, gear).

 

What this would accomplish also is a cure to the silly items leveling with the playing character. Playing my lvl 40+ khajiit assassin, i can see glass weapons and armor on nearly every person in taverns, on bandits, in stock of all vendors, and so on. It really breaks the immersion. I strongly believe that iron and steel gear should be the norm in the land of Skyrim. other types of weapons and armor should be very rare, and hard to find. Enchanted items should be attainable only by risking your life in dangerous catacombs and dungeons, not something found in every corner.

[Deleted2558536User]

If I have read your statement correct you suggest that the player stays at level 1, or any other predetermined level, this will mean that "perfect" balancing can be achieved by the mod due to many variables becoming invalid. The one problem I foresee is skill points. How and when they will be given to the player. You can hardly give every skill point to the player at the beginning nor can you wait to a certain point as this point will be very hard to determine due to enormous amounts of variations between peoples separate games, and that is why the levelling system would have to keep the numbers. Unless... Unless you "visually" rank up, but practically you do not.

[PapaStalin]

for example the skill or perk points could be earned the same way as now, every time you advance 10 skills.

or any way that makes sense in terms of balancing. but imo, that is just a detail, i mean, it can really be solved in a number of ways.

 

the core idea is for every type of mob to have a set general performance compared to every other mob.

 

for example, lets take every single type of "mob" in the game and give it 50 points in defensive skill (armor, whatever), and 50 points in offensive skill (1h weapon...)

than we say, ok based on those referent values, what is the general relation between these mobs.

 

than lets say we would have dragon>...>draugr boss> ... >snow bear>...humanoid> wolf > fox

dont mind the breakdown, just for argument sake.

 

so that you could not meet a random low level bandit, and kill him with a fart (pardon my french), than in few minutes meet another bandit, a high lvl one this time that you cant kill at all.

thats my main point, we should always have some general relation, something that makes sense.

 

When it comes to character improvement, if we take same example, a player character with 80 in heavy armor and 1h weapon, would be a considerably tougher opponent, that the base level of 50. But only to a certain point. So that in effect you could not become 10x as powerful.

 

In that way we could differentiate between same types of mobs, some are good in atack, some in defense, some in both, and so on. But never could you meet a humanoid that is just ridiculously tougher, or weaker than you are.

 

Dunno if it makes sense, english is not my primary language :)

[Dichotomy754]

for example the skill or perk points could be earned the same way as now, every time you advance 10 skills.

or any way that makes sense in terms of balancing. but imo, that is just a detail, i mean, it can really be solved in a number of ways.

 

the core idea is for every type of mob to have a set general performance compared to every other mob.

 

for example, lets take every single type of "mob" in the game and give it 50 points in defensive skill (armor, whatever), and 50 points in offensive skill (1h weapon...)

than we say, ok based on those referent values, what is the general relation between these mobs.

 

than lets say we would have dragon>...>draugr boss> ... >snow bear>...humanoid> wolf > fox

dont mind the breakdown, just for argument sake.

 

so that you could not meet a random low level bandit, and kill him with a fart (pardon my french), than in few minutes meet another bandit, a high lvl one this time that you cant kill at all.

thats my main point, we should always have some general relation, something that makes sense.

 

When it comes to character improvement, if we take same example, a player character with 80 in heavy armor and 1h weapon, would be a considerably tougher opponent, that the base level of 50. But only to a certain point. So that in effect you could not become 10x as powerful.

 

In that way we could differentiate between same types of mobs, some are good in atack, some in defense, some in both, and so on. But never could you meet a humanoid that is just ridiculously tougher, or weaker than you are.

 

Dunno if it makes sense, english is not my primary language :)

 

I was skeptical at first, but you described it in a way that makes sense and I can see how that would totally increase immersion. It would also mean you wouldn't be able to complete every dungeon you happen upon, you will have to look at it and make a risk assessment, what kind of enemies do you think will be in there? bandits? drauger? there's only one real way to find out, you better hope your prepared if you decide to go in.

Edited November 21, 2011 by arithine

[VreyAar]

for example the skill or perk points could be earned the same way as now, every time you advance 10 skills.

or any way that makes sense in terms of balancing. but imo, that is just a detail, i mean, it can really be solved in a number of ways.

 

the core idea is for every type of mob to have a set general performance compared to every other mob.

 

for example, lets take every single type of "mob" in the game and give it 50 points in defensive skill (armor, whatever), and 50 points in offensive skill (1h weapon...)

than we say, ok based on those referent values, what is the general relation between these mobs.

 

than lets say we would have dragon>...>draugr boss> ... >snow bear>...humanoid> wolf > fox

dont mind the breakdown, just for argument sake.

 

so that you could not meet a random low level bandit, and kill him with a fart (pardon my french), than in few minutes meet another bandit, a high lvl one this time that you cant kill at all.

thats my main point, we should always have some general relation, something that makes sense.

 

When it comes to character improvement, if we take same example, a player character with 80 in heavy armor and 1h weapon, would be a considerably tougher opponent, that the base level of 50. But only to a certain point. So that in effect you could not become 10x as powerful.

 

In that way we could differentiate between same types of mobs, some are good in atack, some in defense, some in both, and so on. But never could you meet a humanoid that is just ridiculously tougher, or weaker than you are.

 

Dunno if it makes sense, english is not my primary language :)

 

 

What you want is actually static predefined levels and gear on different mobs that would be hand placed around the world, either in areas or individually.

 

And thats one thing Bethesda havent still learned from original Fallouts. (among many others)

I guess its some kind of foolish pride mixed with reality that they dont even have to really. Their tactic sells them millions of copies and modders work to iron out smaller stuff and add content.

So they stubbornly keep to their "level scaling scheme" and just iterate over time.

 

 

-edit-

 

btw Wolves?

 

Wolves do not attack humans and prefer to avoid them, unless its some extraordinary circumstance.

 

Also - two wolfs doesnt make a pack.

 

And they shoudnt be all over the place. I would prefer to see them in a similar role the fox or rabbit have then like some kind of "Monster".

Bears and big cats, on the other hand - are very aggresive and will attack human without a second thought.

 

I would also set them to be rarer to see especially near human towns and roads and i would make them run away from the player. Wouldnt do to run beside the whole pack.... in the moonlight... high in the mountains....

 

...ahem... well, maybe on a second thought...

 

Would be cool to see a real pack (atleast six-seven to dozen) chasing an elk here and there.

Edited November 21, 2011 by VreyAar

[PapaStalin]

@arithine

yeah thats what i meant, heh you explained it better in few words. Exactly, you stumbled on a dragon at low skill/gear, tough luck theres no way in hell you can kill it.

it would make some dungeons and or opponents impossible below certain skill and gear level. Yes please ! it only makes sense to be like this. Besides, slower we progress in the game, longer we enjoy it :P

 

@VreyAar

sorry, im no modder or a litterate person in terms of writing softwere. wasnt aware this idea means you need to phisically change many stats and gear on each single mob in the game. I can see how that can be challenging :D

 

anyway, were just brainstorming here, we all want the same end result.