Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but another thing that has been bothering me (an should be a relatively easy fix for someone who can actually program) is that my horse is psychotic. I would love to have a horse that would at most lash out at wolves and people once before bolting, and run from things like trolls and ice wraiths immediately. It's completely ridiculous when my horse kills an ice wraith before I can even get a swing in, let alone when he comes charging in from half a mile away to hunt down enemies.

 

Absolutely, I hate that as well. Horses will never attack on their own and if attacked, they will always flee, because horses do always flee, they are not fighting beasts. They will also be easier to kill, so you'll have to mind where you "park" them. I would also like to do a "whistle" ability which will summon your horse back to you in case it runs off.

 

Ever had a horse climb a tower to kick a bandit leader in the head? Yah. Talk about immersion breakers.

[Mansh00ter]

Any time frame on when this mod will be release?

 

Proper work on the mod can begin only when the official CS is released. You can expect the first version of the mod within a week or so after the CS is released, which will mostly consist of "stat shuffling" to rebalance the combat, magic, visuals etc. and lay down groundwork for the more extensive changes. After that there will be regular updates on the "when it's done" basis. :)

[Syonryoken]

Heres some ideas I was thinking of while skimming through the first page. Im sure some have been mentioned, but ill just jot them down maybe they could be helpful who knows lol.

 

Housing/ Creation

 

Will there be anything in terms of building a house? I would love to be able to take up a land of my own. I mean the game has mining and wood cutting already. I think making a couple extra animation for building a house as well as a place to buy decorating goods with an option of hiring a decorator ( basically an easy way to have a good looking place without having to buy every single piece of furniture if you dont want to). Build your own store and npcs buy from you maybe?

 

COMBAT

 

Having un armed back would be nice, heck even daggers having their own skill tree incorporating evading tactics and kicks or something ( i mean really a dude with a knife isnt fighting the same way he would with a sword; otherwise hes getting smashed). I was thinking also maybe for dual wielding you could have an counter option for power attacks ( like they hit away their weapon and they reel back a bit and it auto slashes) however it should have to be timed and when in the process of countering u should take x 1.5 damage which given you new system should leave you in critical condition. That with slightly faster power attacks, I think would give pros to using a one handed weapon and shield or dual wield. Then maybe just maybe make two handed attacks virtually all power attacks ( makes no sense spamming attacks with a huge sword lol) with long arcs and ton of recovery time. Oh and two handed cant be parried, only shielded (still take a good amount of damage if u shield but theyd be open) or evaded.

 

Given somethings stated i think archery would be OP. maybe make the arrows faster but have an evade key? then you could get better evades if you use say unarmed or daggers, iono lol.

 

GUILDS

 

I think a guild overhaul would be nice too. have enough companions you can have your own guild and then just use the radiant questing make stuff for your guild. You also shouldnt be able to head all the guilds. I mean maybe you could head a main one as well as a secretive one ( dark brotherhood and theives guild) but companions shouldnt be headed by an arch mage. Maybe if you make a rival theives guild then you will be ambushed by the actual thieves guild. etc.

 

Fast Travel

 

While I am a person who loves to just journey from one place to another, I do think there can be a middle ground found. I know that a ton of NPCs are given paths to different cities and for the most part, most of those paths are close to wherever u need to go. So how bout the an option of when riding a horse or carriage to make them auto follow the path to wherever. For example, im in Riften and wish to go to White Run the horse or carriage just follows the trail toward the area. Carriages of course still only go to major cities, but at times there could be other travelers as well. Horse you could " auto" travel to wherever in which they sprint toward that area. However it can only be done with a horse every 2 days OR if you feed them. that combined with your own need of food and sleep would cause players to stop the auto travel to camp out at times on their travel, but its still way faster than just running or riding a horse manually. You could also be attack obviously cuz you are just journeying technically. Also for quest when you have to return to wherever and speak with them for completion perhaps you could just send a letter or item with a courier.

 

 

Anyways thats just my 2 cents. Im really excited for Skyrim modding. I have been a fan of this series for over a decade. I am happy that Bethesda put in the effort to lay out a ton of ground work to make mods like these exponentially easier to perform. I mean cooking in vanilla is virtually useless but everything is there. Kill moves, unique perks, logging, mining, hunting, smithing, and crafting can all be used for some amazing mods. Heck maybe by next year we will have the entire tamriel given what theyve done for the other lands. As someone who has had a recent intrigue with Minecraft as well, a true survival mode would be awesome. Maybe we can finally figure out how to do multiplayer finally? even if it was just one more person I would be in love.

[Mansh00ter]

Once again, thanks for the input everyone, it's appreciated.

 

Re. combat: I would love to have a more fleshed out unarmed/dagger combat style, but that will, if I decide to do it, have to be slated for much later in development of the mod, since it would require entirely new perk trees, animation sets etc. If someone else does a quality unarmed combat mod and is generous enough to share it, I would love to incorporate it into Total Realism Overhaul.

 

As for archery being OP, what I will try to do is make things *dangerous*, not easy. If anything, having TRO installed will make you save more often. Playing as an archer will mean you will have an easier time using just your bow against single targets, but that's how it should be (unless they get a drop on you). At the same time, NPC archers in the world are going to present a much greater threat, thus increasing the overall challenge and diversity of combat. For example, fighting against two melee opponents should be entirely different than fighting a melee guy and his archer buddy.

 

Magic combat. I recently switched to playing a pure mage character to get a good feel for magic and I have to say it *really* needs an overhaul. Not just for the sake of realism, but just to make playing a mage satisfying and fun, at least in the equal measure as playing a melee character. Hell, I had to install one of the rebalancing mods just to be able to keep playing, and it still needs a ton of work.

One of the biggest complaints I hear around regarding mages is that playing one can get really boring. Not that you can't kill anything, a mage is probably the most OP playstyle when all things are considered, just that killing stuff, especially tougher enemies, can get boring as hell.

 

One new thing I like about magic is the Wards - finally an active defense mechanism for mages! I also love the utility spells, and all the different combos you can have with dual casting. What I don't like is spammage, especially with the stagger perk. Magic should be lethal. If you zap someone with a bolt of lightning, they shouldn't just shrug it off. There should be screaming and writhing. If you engulf them with, what is basically a flamethrower, they shouldn't just walk through it. People and creatures on fire tend to be in pain, flail around.

So what I am thinking to do initially is rebalance magic so that you have to think ahead, use the right spells for the fight, be proactive with your defense (use those shield and ward spells!) and carefully manage your magicka pool. So, a complicated game which should reward good planning and punish mindless spammage of spells and/or panicking. At the same time, spells should be rebalanced in their power and cost so that utility and defensive spells (primarily Wards) cost very little to use and thus can be used throughout the fight without crippling yourself, while attack spells are very powerful, but cost a lot of magicka, so you have to be careful with them, or you will be doing your fighting with your puny, sensitive mage fists.

 

Again, like with archery, it will make taking on single opponents relatively simple, but on the other hand magic users in the game will be a lot more dangerous, especially if every fire spell will have a fear component to them, every frost attack really slows you down and every lighting attack ragdolls you (because you can't have a satisfying UNLLLIMITED POWAAAAAH attack if your victim isn't writhing on the ground).

 

Bottom line is, mages should not be able to win tough fights by stagger locking enemies with weak spells and whittling them down into oblivion, or by kiting enemies, but by unleashing pure hell on them and NOT MISSING. Magical duels, especially with the improved Ward spells you can keep up for longer, should also be interesting (and forget taking on dragons as a mage without a Ward handy). I'd like to minimize the need to use scenery as a shield and instead use actual magical shields because that's a bit more interesting and that's what they're for. And it looks prettier. ;)

 

So as you can see, I have a lot of ideas about combat, these of course all hinge on the actual gameplay testing and are subject to change. Hopefully we'll end up with something fun, challenging and engaging.

 

One last thing to note - yes, you will be able to abuse the system. You can do that now, and that won't change because that's the way these giant sandbox games work. You can abuse AI pathing issues to make yourself invincible, you can abuse the freedom you are given by making yourself so OP nothing can touch you... that's up to the player. I can fix some things like spamming crafting to level up or get great gear with no effort, but I can't fix someone stacking powerful enchantments to the point of being able to practically spam the most powerful spells all the time. I can make them work for those enchantments though.

So don't expect a perfect, fool-proof system, because that would mean negating the greatest thing about this game, the freedom it gives to the player to do what they want and play how they like.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mansh00ter

[Vejita00]

I am definitely behind this mod but I think it would be a good idea to make it somewhat modular. I am a big fan of being able to selectively turn off certain elements, especially if it conflicts with another mod I have. Something to keep in mind when designing it. Since I am a big fan of improving realism and adding usefulness to features like food and hunting. However I am not a big fan of turning off elements of the UI that I utilize often.

[Mansh00ter]

I am definitely behind this mod but I think it would be a good idea to make it somewhat modular. I am a big fan of being able to selectively turn off certain elements, especially if it conflicts with another mod I have. Something to keep in mind when designing it. Since I am a big fan of improving realism and adding usefulness to features like food and hunting. However I am not a big fan of turning off elements of the UI that I utilize often.

 

 

It will be completely modular. Later on you will even be able to set it up to your liking via an ingame menu. For starters, the mod will be divided into modules, for example, melee combat, magic, archery, crafting, environment, UI etc. so you can just use what you like.

[Prantare]

COMBAT

 

Having un armed back would be nice, heck even daggers having their own skill tree incorporating evading tactics and kicks or something ( i mean really a dude with a knife isnt fighting the same way he would with a sword; otherwise hes getting smashed). I was thinking also maybe for dual wielding you could have an counter option for power attacks ( like they hit away their weapon and they reel back a bit and it auto slashes) however it should have to be timed and when in the process of countering u should take x 1.5 damage which given you new system should leave you in critical condition. That with slightly faster power attacks, I think would give pros to using a one handed weapon and shield or dual wield. Then maybe just maybe make two handed attacks virtually all power attacks ( makes no sense spamming attacks with a huge sword lol) with long arcs and ton of recovery time. Oh and two handed cant be parried, only shielded (still take a good amount of damage if u shield but theyd be open) or evaded.

 

Given somethings stated i think archery would be OP. maybe make the arrows faster but have an evade key? then you could get better evades if you use say unarmed or daggers, iono lol.

 

The most important changes to this game to make it more realistic and immersive is changing the combat and the economy in the game.

 

The combat is way too unbalanced at hard levels as it is now. It takes ages to be killed and it ages to kill. That is no fun. And it is not much harder than easiest of levels.

This is probably the most important change to be done: to make everything feel lethal. As it is now, you know the everything you have to watch out for is the giants. All other enemies are non-lethal.

 

What can be done is to balance the combat so that everyone do more damage or have less hitpoints. To disable kiting very tough enemies and using bugs (such as using a roof against a giant or the river against a bear) a small regen of health would be an easy fix.

 

The economy

Make the good stuff harder to find and easier to buy. As it is now, you never buy stuff because you don't need, have to or want to. Given a supersword from doing a quite easy quest is a quite bad way of rewarding the player.

 

If you need help with the mod I'll be glad to help! I'm studying to become a software engineer so I might be able to lend some tricks of trade. I did some mods for Morrowind years ago so I'm a tad bit used to the editor.

Send me a PM if you're interested. =)

 

Great thread btw!

Edited November 25, 2011 by Prantare

[Levgre]

I'm for all of them except removing Fast Travel. Sometimes, due to real life commitments, it's just not possible to ALWAYS walk as it can take literally hours to get to your destination.

 

I understand how this is the 'realistic' way but I think that it is the option of the user to use fast travel and it should stay that way. If someone wants to be super realistic about it, they won't use it, but whoever wants to use it is free to do so.

 

If it really comes to it, maybe make two versions, one with and one without fast travel?

 

Overall, it's an amazing job!

 

A third alternative is you remove fast travel but keep carriages in the game. It's rare that it is really that long of a walk to return to a city location. Perhaps extra carriage locations could be added.

 

You could also add a spell which teleports back from remote places to population centers (including scrolls). Requiring some extra effort to instantly fast travel is certainly more immersive then having it on demand from the the start.

 

Part of the fun of no fast travel is you start to stick around a specific region for a longer time. Getting things done, then moving on. The planning is very similar to real life.

 

There would also be a more distinguished play feel between warrior classes and mage classes. Teleport would best fit in one of the more 'mage-y" schools, like illusion, less useful to a battle-oriented warrior. So as a mage, you'd feel more "high class" with your teleport spells flying around (there could even be different tier teleports with different capabilities). Meanwhile if you are a physical oriented character you use the traditional method of walking to get around.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Levgre

[jeffrobot]

Hey Manshooter,

 

You mentioned people would be saving a lot more while using TRO. This is a big flaw IMO. Quicksaving is one of the most immersion-ruining elements of this game, and I think it helps defeat TROs purpose. For example:

 

"Hmm, that group of bandits up ahead looks really deadly. I'm not sure if I can take them.... oh well *F5* lets do it! leeeeeroooyy jeeennkiinnss!"

 

Realism would be assessing the situation beforehand, making a calculated decision of whether or not you want to fight this battle. But with quicksaving, you dont have to think at all, you can charge into any battle just to figure out if its managable or not.

 

Also, you can brute force your way through fighting impossible odds by just quicksaving mid battle whenever you score a lucky hit or whatever, and eventually, after dozens of deaths, prevail over your opponent.

 

These are both things that seem to defeat the point of TRO. I'd suggest, and I think a few other people have suggested it in this thread or on the forums, getting rid of manual saving altogether. You save when you sleep, and maybe when you enter/exit a building. Not only does this eliminate both of the problems I mentioned above, but it adds something new that is very important for this mod - a healthy fear of death. Dying = loss of progress, so no one is going to be messing around pretending to be an unstoppable hero. Every enemy will make them just a little bit afraid, which would be awesome.

[BarryTGash]

I'll certainly keep an eye on this. My only real request is that all options are adaptable/toggleable. For some a little too much realism is a bad thing :)

 

A few suggestions:

 

longbows - shouldn't take longer to draw, just more strength (or as individual stats are lacking, a higher level in archery for full benefit)

 

dynamic property - kill the owner and have the option to take control of their property (and the ramifications). A prime example is Anise's hut - kill that biyatch and take over her hut, everything changes from stealing to owning - perhaps having to deal with the rest of the coven when they arrive.

 

An expansion on the horse and cart fast travel - do quests to open new routes (clear known bandit haunts/recruit more road guards (imperial/stormcloak/independant)).