Total Realism Overhaul

[meh12345]

(Aside: does multiquote actually work for anyone else? Much easier to keep track of what I'm supposed to be replying to :)

 

Quick note: yes, use left attack/right block for dual wielding, that works fine.

Quick note II: Duke Patrick's combat mod is pretty badass, I'm told. Again, not to put your efforts down in any way, perhaps there is synergy to be found? http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9886

 

As for hitpoints, right now I managed to even out the damage across all levels, and damage is mostly based on actual weapons, not character skill. Skill plays a factor, but a much smaller one than before.

 

Combat damage perks will also be reduced, so that the highest perk gives only about 30% more damage, instead of 200%. This means that a level 1 can dish out about the same damage using a steel axe as a level 50.

 

I can't agree with this (but this is all just my opinion, naturally): skill is a huge component in combat. Against an essentially prone target, an untrained person (skill <10) can probably do the same damage as a highly trained person (skill 50+) would.

 

…

 

Regarding HP, it'd be better to go with the latter option and restrict HP gain, but the problem of having to adjust tons of monsters is a pretty significant one. Naturally you can crowd-source finding those enemies (or perhaps others would even submit patches for them), but likely there'll still be a lot to do.

 

Going with the high HP gain, I suppose one could RP it off as a high-leveled person being able to dodge some of the ‘damage potential’ rather than direct injury damage (which is how D&D explains hitpoints).

 

Edit: ah, I see Budz42 makes an interesting point about a universally applicable HP adjustment. That'd definitely be the better way, then.

Edited March 4, 2012 by meh12345

[HiddenRanger]

I was following this thread awhile back before the ck was even released. I then stopped playing Skyrim until recently. Then found Basic Needs by chance and Realized that it was by you Mansh00ter. So naturally I'm following this thread again :biggrin: I am glad that this idea is becoming a reality. I find the vanilla game lacking to say the least.

 

About the dual wield parrying system. Is a successful parry going to completely negate damage? I would prefer if it did. I use the dual wield parrying mod right now and I still receive some damage after parrying(caused by that mod or another I'm not sure) and it is very frustrating as I think to myself during the fight, "I just parried that and I still damaged me, that doesn't make sense".

 

Also, I use the non Dragon Script version of that mod with the Right click to parry, Left click to swing random sides, and both to perform dual power attacks. It works very well. I hope to see it in the combat mod as well (even with the lowered damage for the dual attack).

 

Another question, will weapons added by other mods like Jaysus swords completely break the balance by not being inline with the standard weapon changes?

 

-----------Ramblings on TRO in General ----------------------

 

I think that Mansh00ter has gotten all of this pretty right. Yeah it would be nice if there were more spells like some have said and yes others have already overhauled combat but neither of those are going to work in a realism based system as they are. Right now I am running both deadly combat and dual wield parrying and enjoy what they both bring tremendously. But I will be switching when TRO Combat is released. Why? Because I want a completely compatible and fluid TRO experience. In order to ensure that the experience is as fluid and "real" as it can be, its best to come from one place even if they are similar to mods already out there. From what I can tell, TRO is like deadly combat, deadly dragons, a needs system, and a lot other immersion mods that you want all in one coherent system.

 

Having said that, if you have a mod that adds completely new spells and you really want them, I don't think they would be affected too much by this mod. For example, lets say you get a mod that adds a new spell that makes the enemy trip. If Mansh00ter hasn't adjusted for that spell how is TRO going to affect it? I may be wrong but I think that is correct.

 

What I would be more concerned with is compatibility with mods like Wars in Skyrim. If you have this balanced system everywhere else and then hit a battleground with overpowered brutes coming at you it would be game breaking. Hopefully mods like Wars in Skyrim have NPC's that are affected by Mansh00ter's changes, again just speculating at possibilities.

 

Mansh00ter, thanks a bunch for this! You seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders by listening to everyone and still remaining true to the overall goal. I am impressed to say the least :thumbsup:

[tomislawus]

I concur that double wielding should be more differentiated from standard weapon setups but it should not only, if at all, increase your dps (as you cant really swing two swords at the same time, thats just stupid) but let you more dynamically parry and "lock" your enemy weapon with your off-hand weapon. Thats theory and I don't think it could be implemented. Alternatively, performing power attack with both weapons could cause you to stagger and become vulnerable if you wont kill your enemy with this OP attack. Attacking with both weapons at once would be like a desperate attack where you overextend and just jump in berserker rage on your target with no regard for your safety.

 

Anyway, Mansh00ter, as I can see that you are a devoted and determined modder I wonder, as I always do when I see someone like you, what is the driving force behind all this work you put into this mod? I'm just curious because I modded a lot of games myself in the past and it was always because I didn't like the vanilla experience and wanted to improve it for myself. But it always ended the same way - after understanding the inner workings of a game, I grew bored of it and ended up not playing it anymore. Thats why I don't make mods for games anymore - because I want to play them.

 

Why I'm writing all this bullshiit anyway? Because I feel we all who post in this thread with good advice, ideas and suggestion for the mod should actually help you with making the mod instead. I feel somewhat guilty of not helping you and just posting "how should things work" instead of actually doing something and thats why I write all these things:D I just feel that I need some kind of a excuse to not help you and this is it - if I were to help you I would be unable to enjoy the finished work as I should - that is quite egoistic of me but its still better excuse than "omg I have not time to mod, I work so hard" or "omg I cant mod its so hard omg". Cheers! :DDDDDDDDD

[Mansh00ter]

@tomislawus - Don't worry about it - modding is a hobby and a passion for me. I just like to tinker with stuff, make it work differently. The feeling when you take something and completely change it so that it "works better" is a very nice one. ;)

 

I'm perhaps a few months or less away from finishing a marathon modding project of mine I did for the Sins of a Solar Empire that took three years to do, so this is nothing in comparison. :P

 

Plus when I'm done, Skyrim's gonna be just awesome. :P

 

A few things that I'd like to pitch in.

 

In Papyrus/Script Dragon you could always make a divisor for the health pool of any NPC and PC including named ones (so you could divide all health by 10 or something) OR you could set up a ratio that'll set a more dynamic health pool for all NPC's, which quite frankly would require half a day just to piece an algorithm together, but it'll be effective. Doing it this way can potentially cause any NPC mods to automatically be compatible with your mod - assuming your mod is later in the load order.

 

I was thinking about that, and theoretically it is doable, although it would make all weapon and NPC mods require having the default vanilla weapon tags in order to be compatible, but it would certainly be a whole new way of doing combat - if done right. Just making a divisor wouldn't be enough, you would have to essentially code a whole new system of calculating damage. You would have to take into account armor types, NPC types (can't have an axe do the same portion of damage to a dragon as it would do to some regular Joe) attack types etc.

 

So it would by no means be a simple task. If successful, it would radically alter combat in Skyrim though. I think I'll play around with it for a bit, see what can be done. :)

[Matteo48]

Do you intend to make Basic needs compatible with "Realistic waters" mod ? I feel like currently your mod isn't compatible with realistic waters. I never succeeded in filling an empty bottle :biggrin:

[meh12345]

Being that this is the total realism thread, I'm just going to toss this out there: an adventurer doesn't have the time to learn blacksmithing. Id est, the external skills should be far more costly than they are, and services could be received or purchased instead.

[Mansh00ter]

Do you intend to make Basic needs compatible with "Realistic waters" mod ? I feel like currently your mod isn't compatible with realistic waters. I never succeeded in filling an empty bottle :biggrin:

 

Yep, version 1.0 will have a RWT compatibility patch to fix water detection issues. I hoped to release it today, but I got sick, so it will have to wait.

[tobbe84]

It would be awesome if you added an animation for changing clothes and armour, or just made it impossible to change those kinds of equipment during combat.

[SeanTwig]

Maybe you can use the middle mouse button for a dual weapon block. I mean, it makes sense right? Left for left hand, Right for right hand and middle click for using both to block

[Mansh00ter]

Adding hotkeys requires a thirs party script extender, and I have a policy of avoiding those if possible.

 

As for adding some kind of a penalty for changing clothes/armor while in combat, I agree and plan to look into that. Potions already heal over time, like spells, and there is an animation when your drink them meaning if you do it in the middle of a brawl, you're going to get slaughtered.