Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

You can easily do that by using the set Timescale 1 command in the console - though it may mess up some quests, and will certainly play silly buggers with the Basic Needs, since that is tied to game time, not real time.

 

And I don't think you need a new machine just to run Total Realism - if you can play Skyrim, you're fine.

[Mansh00ter]

Check this puppy out:

 

calcDamage = (baseDamage*powerAttackMult*(1-((attackSkill/defendSkill)*(baseHPAttacker/baseHPVictim)*((baseDamage*100*powerAttackMult)/(baseDefense*100)))))*(1-armorResist) - baseArmor

 

It is tidier than that, this is just to show you all the factors that go into a hit calculation, plus...

 

...it's not even half done (projectile/weapon vs armor penetration factor, race modifiers etc.) annnd..

 

...I got DT back in the game ! :D Now try to go with a dagger against daedric plate armor!

 

* (for those who don't know DT stands for Damage Threshold, or minimum damage you have to do in order to do ANY damage, and is tied to armor types - Fallout: NV uses it)

 

Damage is now percentage based, meaning it is HP independent, instead it relies on Actor race to determine the effectiveness of a hit, which in the end means that throughout the game, a lvl 1. NPC will present the same kind of challenge as a lvl 50, while the real difficulty will arise from NPC gear/race. If you go against someone wearing dwarven plate armor, you better have a really nice weapon yourself or you're going to have some, khm, difficulties. And it doesn't matter if you got 10000HP, a level1 with a 2H Axe will still be able to kill you if you don't pay attention.

 

Blocking is a special game in itself, taking into account attacker weapon type, defender weapon type (no longer can you block a 2H warhammer with a dagger), attacker weapon skill, defender block skill, attacker and defender overall strength and of course, power attacks.

 

Plus all the nice paraphenalia, like hit staggering dependant on damage done, dual wield parrying etc.

 

So far it looks and plays great, of course it will need a lot of testing and tweaking (I fully expect bugs like people saying they mauled Alduin with their teeth instead of running into the tower), but that's what beta versions are for, eh? :P

Edited March 6, 2012 by Mansh00ter

[HiddenRanger]

Soooo excited for this!!

 

I know that when it is released it requires a new game start but will it require one after updates? And is the combat mod the only TRO mod that will require a fresh start?

 

Thanks!

[meh12345]

Sounds very promising! Eagerly awaiting to see this.

 

One note: I'm not sure how you've planned it but the threshold should never be absolute. A dagger (that is, a proper dagger, not a kitchen knife) is actually one of the best weapons against heavy armor because you can get it in through the little unprotected bits like the classic armpit stab. On a simplistic level, this could be represented with a small percentage chance to deal the damage after the DT check has failed; or, more elaborately, there could be a base 'pure luck' chance of <5% plus a skill check from, say, 15 points upwards for increasing additional potential to bypass threshold.

 

Also, you're correct that you can't block much with a dagger, but a skilled user can deflect with it ;) Even still, chances are that the rogue type would rather dodge or sidestep the swing than try to parry it. The dodge mechanisms in the game seem pretty limited, and if you can't improve those, I think that needs to be taken into account.

 

Another note: the Deadly Combat author's had some issues with script execution getting laggy…it's definitely worth trying to gauge how your version fares on that account, if possible. Might be that has to be pushed to user testing, though?

Edited March 6, 2012 by meh12345

[Mansh00ter]

Actually it won't require a fresh game start, because it replaces the vanilla combat system so that NPC's are updated on the fly (as opposed to tweaking game settings which often do not affect already spawned NPC's) but a fresh start will be recommended, just for the fun of it. You know... when that bear in Helgen caves at the beginning of the game can actually maul you, that sort of fun. ;)

 

Updates will also be save-game friendly, unless some major stuff has to be altered, but then a simple uninstall-reinstall of the mod will do.

[Mansh00ter]

Sounds very promising! Eagerly awaiting to see this.

 

One note: I'm not sure how you've planned it but the threshold should never be absolute. A dagger (that is, a proper dagger, not a kitchen knife) is actually one of the best weapons against heavy armor because you can get it in through the little unprotected bits like the classic armpit stab. On a simplistic level, this could be represented with a small percentage chance to deal the damage after the DT check has failed; or, more elaborately, there could be a base 'pure luck' chance of <5% plus a skill check from, say, 15 points upwards for increasing additional potential to bypass threshold.

 

Also, you're correct that you can't block much with a dagger, but a skilled user can deflect with it ;) Even still, chances are that the rogue type would rather dodge or sidestep the swing than try to parry it. The dodge mechanisms in the game seem pretty limited, and if you can't improve those, I think that needs to be taken into account.

 

Another note: the Deadly Combat author's had some issues with script execution getting laggy…it's definitely worth trying to gauge how your version fares on that account, if possible. Might be that has to be pushed to user testing, though?

 

Absolutely, script lag is my no.1 concern right now - so far there hasn't been any, but there is a difference when testing with a few NPC's around and stress-testing with a LOT of them around. Trouble is, TGM no longer works with the mod on, so I'll have to script in a testing invulnerability in the config menu so I can just go crazy in a city or something, see how it behaves then. Or maybe I'll just spawn 20/20 NPC battle, this works on NPC fights as well. I am doing my best to keep the script short and tight just for that reason. Also I think Deadly Combat uses QuestAlias method to assign scripts to actors, I use an AOE effect to do the same, maybe it'll make a difference. And there are also a few other tricks I can try with script threading if necessary.

 

As for daggers, that's what sneak attacking is for, only sneak attacks are now tied to the Sneak skill, meaning you only get the full damage multiplier when your sneak skill is at 100. Only with a sneak attack can you bypass the DT, since it means you're carefully choosing where to hit your target. In regular combat this does not apply and daggers will be the weakest weapon type in the game for regular melee. Assassins are encouraged to use a dagger in the main hand and a better parrying weapon like a sword in the offhand, so they can fend off attacks with some degree of success if their initial attack fails.

 

P.S. I should also note that you CAN block attacks with a dagger - but if you try to block a 2H warhammer power attack with a dagger, you're going to get your skull crushed. On the other hand, you can completely block any damage from another dagger.

Your relative character strength (HP) and skill with a weapon also play a factor, so theoretically a very strong character who is also a master at one handed weapons can block an attack by a 2H battleaxe is that's wielded by a scrawny amateur. It all depends on who is fighting who.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Mansh00ter

[Mansh00ter]

Just tested the script on a 30/30 NPC battle and they all slaughtered each other happily (those Stormcloak archers are vicious!), no lag at all. I guess extended playtesting will reveal any problems if there are any.

[meh12345]

Excellent news! Warzones would probably be a good stress test.

[Mansh00ter]

Pffft... just tested a new game start and Alduin started behaving wierd, missing cues, getting stuck... I thought it was the script lagging then I remembered I forgot to point the Keyword properties for him, which made the script fail to treat him as a badass he is. Turns out he was getting two-shotted by archers constantly! :P

 

All fixed now. :whistling:

 

Reading up on Deadly Combat issues, seems script lag might be inevitable for some people though - it all has to do with how powerful your machine is, and what kind of stuff you're running. Mine is in medium range and I haven't seen any lag yet, but I suppose that if people stress their machines with too many mods, HQ textures and whatnot, script queues might occur - that's what's bothering Deadly Combat and is essentially the same for every mod using scripts, though I am hoping to avoid that with some uber optimization. But when it comes to mods, people can always overdo it, can't optimize for that.

[AKofman]

This looks very promising, however I do have a concern.

 

If damage will be calculated based on percentage, will there ever be a need to up your health? When I level up, do I ignore health and up stamina/magicka? Would I ever use a ring that bolsters health?

 

Granted, you were talking about physical damage, but will magic damage work the same way? If so, it seems like health would be a useless stat.