Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

Nope, not useless at all. Health is used both for attack and defense calculations in case of a block (which happens often) and it can sometimes mean a difference between managing to block a powerful blow or dying, and crushing through a block or seeing it bounce harmlessly away. Health is basically translated as your physical strength, and while it doesn't have an impact on outright damage you do (because then certain NPC's would do inhuman amounts of damage and would be impossible to overcome), it still has a purpose.

 

Just no longer an obvious one.

 

And also, magic works differently from melee - it retains vanilla DPS stats, but now it has many side effects, and is meant for mages to quickly subdue, deter and devastate opponents who would otherwise kill them with a single blow or two. So extra health can still help against magical attacks.

[seanxx]

Manshooter, Right now your hunger etc module has some issues with RWT mod right? do you think it would conflict with any other very popular mod?

[Lokiron]

I think you just crushed all concerns I had for your combat system. Those being how to reduce HP through levels without nerfing it into oblivion, and how character skill would mean anything (you said earlier that an idiot with an axe is still a piece of muscle using a dangerous axe).

 

I find your new utilisation of HP rather ingenious as it now represents combat durability while actually using the skills from which your combat durability originates!

HP has always bothered me because it's an indirect measure of toughness. When translated to Hit Points: good. When translated to Health Points: bad. IMO.

 

Well done, I can't wait to try it out!

 

Ps. Does your calculation make sense? It looks like attackSkill reduces damage. Is your calculation based on low attack being a good thing?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Lokiron

[tomislawus]

Making weapons deal only percentage damage may be a bit unrealistic. In reality there are people who can get stabbed a lot more (bacause they are are fat bodybuilders with high pain tolerance) than others. Will there be any stat that will represent this in the game or all humans will be killed with 3-4 arrows no matter how fat or drunk:D

 

Also, daggers cant be useless outside of sneak attacks as you want them to be. There should be two ways to deal with heavy armored enemy:

 

1. Hit them with something big and heavy like a hammer, axe or two handed sword so you can get through their thick armor by sheer force of you blows. This is the way a heavy knight or unskilled peasant (with a spear or a flail) would do it.

 

2. Get close to them/force them into a clinch where they cant swing their weapons and retaliate and stick something sharp, thin and extremely pointy under the armpit or even try to puncture their armor with a very thin blade (vide misericorde - it wasn't been used only for coup de grace but also in combat when using an axe or hammer wasn't an option). This is the way rogues should deal with heavy armored enemies - parry with a sword and when their weapon is locked in parry use the off hand dagger and finish them.

 

In gameplay terms you could make the dagger a very fast weapon (obviously) but only when used for fast attacks and quite useless against armor. Then make dagger power attacks rather slow and very low range but with armor penetration. The way it would work is a rogue with a sword and a dagger would parry the attack or otherwise make its enemy stagger and then close in and perform the dagger power attack. Alternatively make dagger attacks have bonus armor penetration when attacking staggering/stunned enemies.

 

Anyway I think that dagger should be more useful for dealing with heavy armor than a plain sword (only when used properly) but still less useful than heavy two handed weapons.

[Mansh00ter]

I can modify power attack multipliers based on the weapon type, yes, so it would be easy to make a dagger power attack do, say 2.5x damage, instead of 1.8x a normal power attack does. This would give some utility to forceful attacks with a dagger, as many armors have low resists against piercing weapons (dagger and bows are the only weapons classed as piercing). Plus you could gut random passerby in the streets of Whiterun easily with a knife, I know that's always popular. :P

 

The way armor types work though, it won't do you much good against someone in daedric armor. I had to account for fantasy armor sets, and attacking someone wearing full daedric means you will have to use either arrows, because they have much higher damage potential than daggers, or big weapons (even normal attacks with swords might just bounce off), or spells.

 

To illustrate, these are the following armor types used, from (relatively) weakest to strongest:

 

Clothing

Light

Studded

Banded

Scale

Mail

Semi Plate

Plate

Heavy Plate

Elite

 

Each armor type has specific resistance modifiers against every type of damage (slashing, piercing, blunt), in addition to basic Damage Threshold (minimum amount of damage needed to do any damage at all). Each armor resistance modifier is further affected by the attacking weapon's material. Not all materials are represented, only those which make the most difference, so that a Daedric artifact has a native resistance of only 10% (hot knife through butter), while a steel weapon has a native resistance of 46% (will cut, but no lightsaber).

 

When applied to the armor resistance modifier, it means that if you attack someone wearing a studded leather armor with a steel dagger, the armor is going to block 7% of damage done, but if you use a daedric dagger, the armor is going to block only 2% of damage done. Of course, as you go higher up the ladder, the differences become more drastic. And there is the DT - studded leather armor has base DT of 0.12, while a dagger has base damage factor of 0.2, meaning that skill factor (+15% base damage max) aside, a dagger will only have an effective damage of 0.08, or 8% - so you will need a lot of quick slashes to kill someone.

 

The formulas used are quite complex, I am trying to bring a lot of variety into melee and ranged combat, and there are a lot of factors to consider. From the user's standpoint, just remember that daggers are not so good when fighting a heavily armored opponent with a powerful weapon. You will NOT be able to kill a dragon with a dagger, even a daedric one. It WILL eat you. Hell, for that matter, I wouldn't even try to take on a common bear with a knife. Racial modifiers and all, bears can take a lot more punishment than humans.

 

As for dealing HP percentage and fat/muscular people being harder to kill than thin/weak ones, maybe I can plug something in, for example if I can get the mass actor value (if it is even used). I have to test it though, maybe if it works properly on all creatures I could use it instead of the racial HP soak multipliers I'm using now. It would even be faster, code-wise.

 

@Lokiron - that formula was all messed up. Fixed it later. :)

[Mansh00ter]

Lol, the worst thing are unexpected bugs - turns out Alduin hits everyone with an... unarmed?? attack when he shouts on the tower above the execution site - resulting in prompt death for everyone, including the player. :facepalm:

So I have to delay the script until the player at least has a chance to run.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Mansh00ter

[BrianBors]

Hey Manshooter,

 

First of all. Thank you! Your awsome! I actually put skyrim on hold until you finish most of your mod.

 

Secondly.... just one gripe.... eh... nevermind. Keep doing what you do!

[HiddenRanger]

So will there any benefit to staying in light armor? Such as a noticeable difference in speed of movement between a player in light vs heavy plate? It sure doesn't feel that way in vanilla lol

[hooost]

yeah. it doesn't feel that way in combat, which matters most.

[InsaneJelly]

Found a glitch with the basic needs.

 

After creating a new character, the messages and blurred vision for being drunk refused to show up on my previous character. It did not even show up as an active effect, so I ended up accidentally drinking too much and randomly fell over and died from alcohol poisoning on the streets of Whiterun.

Then my game crashed.

 

The messages still show up on my new character, though.

Edited March 7, 2012 by InsaneJelly