The Night Stalker

[Rompa999]

I've have a discussion with a friend of mine on the possibility of the Silver Hand being vampires. It would make sense, in a lot of lore (maybe not Elder Scrolls, but anyway) vampires and werewolves hate eachother with a passion. That, and the fact that some members of the Silver Hand have vampire dust in their inventory. Something to think about when it comes to a vampire questline.

[ewanwalker2001]

Sorry I'm one of the critics it seems.

 

In my opinion, you have some really exciting changes in there but also a lot of things, notably including some of Bethesda original ideas, which are just a bit inconducive to Vampires in general.

 

Really, a Vampire craves blood; needs it, wants it. A Vampire should NOT get more powerful by not drinking blood. It should get weaker. That only makes sense and is possibly the biggest failing on Beth's part; and on yours if you keep it.

 

Then we have general disadvantages/advantages and balance.

 

I'm seeing new Vampire Infamy, Vampire Hunters, unable to use restoration magic, more damaging effect of Sunlight and the keeping of 100% Fire damage.

 

Now look at the good things you're adding:

 

Modified Vampire Drain, Vampire Servant, Embrace of Shadows, and a new Vampire Seduction ability. (3 of which are once a day powers)

 

 

Unless I'm missing something really obvious all I can see is that you've hiked up the bad things about being a Vampire and then also bashed down some of the good things.

 

But as I said, it's just my opinion, but maybe my comments might make you see another angle to your mod, whether positive or negative.

[Darksun45230]

Now look at the good things you're adding:

 

Modified Vampire Drain, Vampire Servant, Embrace of Shadows, and a new Vampire Seduction ability. (3 of which are once a day powers)

 

 

Unless I'm missing something really obvious all I can see is that you've hiked up the bad things about being a Vampire and then also bashed down some of the good things.

 

But as I said, it's just my opinion, but maybe my comments might make you see another angle to your mod, whether positive or negative.

 

I have trouble understanding your critique. What exactly does encouraging an alternative style of gameplay bad in anyway? You're really not all that specific.

[VreyAar]

he was specific.

[eyk003]

Sorry I'm one of the critics it seems.

 

In my opinion, you have some really exciting changes in there but also a lot of things, notably including some of Bethesda original ideas, which are just a bit inconducive to Vampires in general.

 

Really, a Vampire craves blood; needs it, wants it. A Vampire should NOT get more powerful by not drinking blood. It should get weaker. That only makes sense and is possibly the biggest failing on Beth's part; and on yours if you keep it.

 

Then we have general disadvantages/advantages and balance.

 

I'm seeing new Vampire Infamy, Vampire Hunters, unable to use restoration magic, more damaging effect of Sunlight and the keeping of 100% Fire damage.

 

Now look at the good things you're adding:

 

Modified Vampire Drain, Vampire Servant, Embrace of Shadows, and a new Vampire Seduction ability. (3 of which are once a day powers)

 

 

Unless I'm missing something really obvious all I can see is that you've hiked up the bad things about being a Vampire and then also bashed down some of the good things.

 

But as I said, it's just my opinion, but maybe my comments might make you see another angle to your mod, whether positive or negative.

 

Hi Ewan, thanks for taking the time to give your critique. Certainly, there's no reason for you to apologize :]

 

You bring up some excellent points, and at the same time you seem to be confused about some of the changes I plan to implement. No worries, the original proposal is long, and I don't blame anyone for not taking the time to take a careful look through them.

 

1. "Really, a Vampire craves blood; needs it, wants it. A Vampire should NOT get more powerful by not drinking blood. It should get weaker. That only makes sense and is possibly the biggest failing on Beth's part; and on yours if you keep it."

 

I do not blame you for saying this. As I mentioned before, I felt exactly the same way about Oblivion vampirism in the past. At the same time, this is simply an assumption on your part.

 

As I've explained in the post, my interpretation of Bethesda's vision is not about vampires who get stronger or weaker, but about vampires who become more human as they drink blood, less human as they go without.

 

I think this carries some interesting thematic consequences. It creates tension. We crave power as human beings, and we crave the warmth and benefit of belonging to a human society, yet the vampire must choose carefully--how does the vampire balance the desire for demonic power, with the desire to drink blood and return once again to the arms of humanity? That is up to the player.

 

I'm sure that there will be many excellent mods which reverse this principle. I salute them, and you can bet I'll try them out. I'll probably even enjoy it.

 

For me though, the vanilla mechanic is more than a challenging design obstacle, but an opportunity to explore a vampire lore that is not better or worse, but simply different. I think we can agree that variety is good for everybody.

 

2. "Modified Vampire Drain, Vampire Servant, Embrace of Shadows, and a new Vampire Seduction ability. (3 of which are once a day powers) Unless I'm missing something really obvious all I can see is that you've hiked up the bad things about being a Vampire and then also bashed down some of the good things."

 

Here's what you missed: referring back to the OP, Vampire's Servant is no longer a once-a-day power but a repeatable ability with a high magicka/stamina cost. Vampiric Seduction is no longer once-a-day either--as long as you do not currently own an enthralled being, you are able to use it multiple times throughout the day.

 

Embrace of Shadows is the only ability that remains as a once-a-day power, but its utility has been expanded. I wouldn't say it is stronger or weaker, just different.

 

Vampiric Drain has been significantly improved, especially through the dual-cast overcharge mechanic which introduces a stagger effect and (at stage 4), a healing rate of 30+ HP/second. Locking out healing from Restoration is not intended to punish the vampire player but to encourage the use of the newly buffed Vampiric Drain.

 

I won't get into a discussion about what vampires should be, since that is a subjective and pointless debate. The vampire is simply a fictional creation and has been many things throughout its place in human society, from the ancient demon lilitu, to Bram Stoker's Dracula, all the way to World of Darkness, Hellsing, Twilight, and other plethora of modern vampire literature, each with a unique vision of the vampire. I simply don't think there's anything a vampire has to be.

 

The vampire is only what you want it to be, no more and no less.

 

-eyk

 

PS I'll try and respond to some of the other comments and suggestions when I can find the time.

Edited November 22, 2011 by eyk003

[kuro1n]

If you can you should make two versions of your mod or a file where people can edit the settings they want, i for one agree with ewanswalker and think bethesdas way of making vampires stronger the longer the time pass stupid. : )

[Fuzzylicious]

Heh, figures that a Skyrim mod would take me out of lurker status to actually say something on these forums.

 

First of all, put me down for "download when released", as this sounds right up my alley. I love the lore around the current vampires, even if my heart at times yearn for a more "classic" vampire. Like you say, variety is good. Besides, I'm very much against altering the lore of a gameworld, no matter the gameworld.

 

In addition, I'd like to say something to all the "Werewolves have to hate Vampires and vice versa" lobbyists in here. Where, may I ask, have you gotten the idea that they have to be enemies? Are you cut of the same cloth as Stephanie Meyer, who probably saw Underworld or Van Helsing and decided that because these stories had Werewolf/Vampire hatred, that is the norm? Or do you look to White Wolf and their World of Darkness games? Because, honestly, vampires and werewolves have never had anything to do with each other. Never. Crossover comics, movies and games have had them duking it out for years now because it's awesome. Hell, it's epic even. And that idea originated in the fact that they were two of the best received creatures of horror in the early ages of cinema; Nosferatu and the Wolf-Man. That's it. Not for any other folkloric reason. So, unless stated in-universe in the given fictional universe that they are mortal enemies, it can be equally awesome that they be friends who terrorize the night tag-team style. Maybe even hook up with Frankenstein's monster and play strip poker on Fridays.

 

This is Skyrim, not Underworld.

 

Bah... First post and it turns into a rant.

 

On topic though; awesome and well-thought out idea. I'd love to playtest it when nearing the finish line if needed.

[VoraNoxstella]

I'll be watching this. Everything I want and more

[Darksun45230]

@Fuzzylicious

 

While it is true this Vampires vs. Werewolves is something we as a culture invented, I believe that, at least according to lore, that they are at the very least indifferent to one another. As Rompa999 said earlier, the Silver Hands had Vampires in their ranks and whether or not these volunteers intended to directly harm Werewolves (considering their sole purpose seemed to eradicate them) we can at least infer that Vampires were not their allies. There's also the implication that we've never seen Vampires and Werewolves hunt together in vanilla Skyrim (which would be awesome if it was otherwise.) Sadly, that's seems to be the case.

 

I believe that Werewolves and Vampires are more like competitors than allies. They both require the same food source, but one manages to blend in better than the other (or should) at the cost of convenience. As a Werewolf you're free to transform any time and during that state you must feed to retain a transformed state. As a Vampire, you need that food-source constantly. I hypothesize that the Vampires joined the Silver Hands simply to eliminate their competition, hence allowing their kind to bolster in number. It was likely the Silver Hands didn't know about their Vampire members because they'd be on the chopping block too. I'd even go so far as theorize that the Silver Hands were merely a puppet organization controlled by Vampiric forces.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Darksun45230

[elricshan]

i am a fan of vamp vs wolf but i think their meaning of eachothers is diferent from vampt to vamp and wolf to wolf. if a wolf killed a vamp clan the surivors would shurly hate wolfs or just that induvidual. I Love your idea and i think this will be an awesome mod and i will download this and probaly love it but if you have a place to turn the blood sycle people can play the vamp ways they love whitout having to switch vamp mod.