Did you kill Paarthurnax?

[Arcadiast]

@Matth85

 

since you pretty much "destroyed" my "Fear the Dovah" defense, I have to come up with another.

 

If Dragons are really that power hungry and the Dovahkin, being mortal, will perish in a comparably fast time, would it not be smarter to request me to kill ALL Dragons and not just Paarthurnax? Think of Odahving for a second. He is a Dragon, he is mighty and he has the same thirst for Power. Once Alduin and Paarthurnax and the Dovahkin perish, would he not try to become the ruler himself? So I would need to eliminate him also. In fact, I must make sure that before I die there is not a single Dragon left unslayn. Considering how many Dragons are encountered one Wonders if that is even possible.

 

Paarthurnax is the only Dragon that shows the slightest Sense and Reason. Killing him without taking care of other Dragons, which is the case in the games Storyline so far, is a fools errand. That would only pave the road for other Dragons, who do not even try to control their desire for Domination.

 

I have to assume, that the request to slay Paarthurnax is a emotional request from the Blades to make up for their incompetence and failure in the last 200 years. They are using me to kill a being for no good reason, just for their own selfish desires.

 

The Blades will die for this insolence. I will torture them in the chambers of the Dark Brotherhood for as long as I please. I will raise young Dragons with their Blood. All hail Dovahkin, the King of Dragons!

[MidbossVyers]

King? Pathetic! Why not Emperor?

[Matth85]

If Dragons are really that power hungry

They did try to enslave the mortal race before.

 

would it not be smarter to request me to kill ALL Dragons and not just Paarthurnax?

I'll assume they expect you to do so, but request you to kill Paarthurnax because, well, they are idiots. Perhaps this is the "cut of the head of the snake" tactic. First Alduin, then Paarthurnax. Then there is only "weak" dragons left, which means no leader and no coordinated dragons.

 

That said, I do prefer dragons over the Blades, and wouldn't kill Paarthurnax unless I choose it myself. I still believe the guy is up to no good in the long run.

[dianacat777]

Yea. I didn't mind Delphine and Esbern until they told me I had to kill him. Without him, we 'supposedly' wouldn't have been able to defeat Alduin. He seems a better and stronger ally against future evils than two old fogies.

This. I loved the Blades, and then they had to go and throw this stupid tantrum and alienate me.

 

Now I spend hours in Sky Haven Temple murderizing Delphine's essential ass. Honestly, who does she think she is? It's her sworn duty to protect me, not boss me around on matters she's too bigoted to even try to understand. I'm cooler with Esbern, but... you're either with me or against me.

 

Paarth may be up to no good, but he's kept his nose clean for millennia, and he's a pretty cool guy, so I'm really inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dianacat777

[skaller]

I'm siding with Paarthurnax mainly because Delphine stuck me with an ultimatum right at the end of the High Hrothgar meeting. I'd rather kill her, but she's invincible so instead I fus ro dah'd her off the cliff in Sky Haven's backyard. Arngeir (the greybeard who talks) didn't want to help me when I was growing too fast in his judgement, but he remembered his place and served the Dragonborn. Delphine, on the other hand, lets me run off on a dangerous wild goose chase for that horn, leaves a taunting note, and now decides she is the Dragonborn's boss. She can't kick me out of the blades! I AM the Blades, and I kick her out!

[Gilibran]

It all went downhill with the blades after Joffre. Now there is the Penatus Oculatas to protect the emperor. The blades are gone, days past. However it is mainly because of bethesda that everyone, including myself feels the blades dont get the credit they deserve. Read the files on Delphine & Esbern from Elenwen. You got to give them some credit for surviving and still being so dangerous according to the Thalmor. But as said bethesda screwed it. I was expecting a major quest to reinstate the Blades and have them become the center of resistance against the Thalmor. The wisdom of Joffre seems to have been lost during the war. As far as i understood, during the oblivion crisis, the blades were much more then just the emperors bodyguard. they were the protectors of Tamriel, an organisation who had knowledge of the ages at their disposal and able to overcome the petty feelings Delphine & Esbern hold against Paarthunax. To me they seemed to be an organisation who could forgive and forge new alliances all in benefit of the empire. Not focuse on one dragon who, yes remains a dragon and therefore unpredictable, but still a formidable ally. They have lost there view and abbility to see the big picture.

 

They record and pass on the knowledge. Including the knowledge that it is in times of crisis neccesary to put old grieves behind them to the benefit of the empire. Forgive Paarthunax for now and settle it later if thet cannot believe he really tries to change despite his nature. The reality is that Paarthunax is a bigger asset & ally for the empire then the blades at this point in time. Killing Paarthunax will do more damage then letting the blades fade into history.

 

This is all due to Delphine, Esbern is the to old elder who cannot step beyond what has happened to his beloved organisation he gave his life to. But you can forgive him for that because Esbern is just that the "old dog who cannot learn new tricks" As i see it, Delphine should be young enough still, despite the hardships she has gone through at the Thalmors doings, to be realistic and see that the realtionship the, Reverred Dragonborn has with Paarthunax is a good thing for the empire.

 

Unless the Thalmor know the dragonrend shout they are practically toast. The dragonborn can force any dragon to fight for them, if not, or if they betray them halfway a battle, the dragonborn shouts dragonrend at the treasonous dragon and leaves him helpless on the battlefield. That is a worse case scenario from the dragon perspective.

 

The dragons (or at least the majority) are much more likely to listen to the Dragonborn then to the Thalmor. Who would the dragons help? The dragonborn who defeated the leader no Dragon himself could defeat? or the Thalmor up against an army probably lead by the one who defeated the most powerfull dragon apart from Akatosh himself?

 

It would not matter much to the dragons on the other hand since they live almost eternally, but stil they have to at one point always choose a side. And it does not really matter if that side is positive for their own agenda or not. If not they just execute their agenda a few decades or millenia later. But still they have to keep that agenda in mind and cannot really do anything else in this era but side with the dragonborn who knows that devious dragonrend.

 

Now this kind of reasoning however flawed i expected from the blades after 200 years. The could be just that thing that sparks the resistance to end the Thalmor domination. But no, instead they act like what w all dispice, grumpy old organisation who cannot deal with the fact they have been defeated and are heading straight for nothing more then a sidenote in history despite their history.

[GreatWhiteHype]

I'm torn myself. I understand that in this era the blades are miniscle and obsolete, but that's not to say they will never come to power again. I also see Nax as a dragon and nothing more. He's waited 1000 years for dragonborn to return to kill his more powerful brother. Who's to say he won't attempt a take over at the end of the dragonborn's mortal life? Yea when that will happens another dragonborn will be born, bit without the wise old Nax at the top of the mountain, who will tell him about the dragonrend shout?

 

I see where the blades are coming from with the Nax must die. Look at the past 80 years IRL. Even today Nazi officers and soldiers are being sentenced and executed for war crimes committed before most us were thought of. You think if Hitlers brother was meditating on some mountain for the last 65 years the Jewish community wouldn't want him to pay for his crimes?

 

Dragons were responsible for thousands of lives being lost across Tamriel.

 

Bottom line Nax is a dragon, he said not to trust any dragons and with this post I think I've finally talked myself into killing the flying lizard.

[DuskWulf]

Okay, necroing this because whilst reading stuff about Paarthy I spotted this and it's so full of nonsense, original research, and outright porkies that I just had to bring it up. It's so bad it's funny.

 

 

1st. Paarthurnax knew Alduin would return and he knew where Alduin would return to. Why would he the weaker of the two attempt to rise to power only for the Blade's to hunt him down, Or for Alduin to return pissed off that Paarthurnax had betrayed him?

This ultimately needs a [citation needed] because it amounts to original... research (and I use that term loosely). There was no evidence in the game one way or the other that Paarthurnax was omniscient and that he'd foreseen all of what was going to happen, as you're implying.

 

You're stating factually that Paarthurnax knew these things, that he was somehow omniscient. It is your theory that he might have known these things. And going by the improvisational nature of his plans, it's a poor theory at best.

 

If you base your entire claim upon flawed assumptions, then the claim itself is equally flawed.

 

 

2ed. Paarthurnax said he waited there for a reason but never went into detail about it.

Incorrect. Paarthurnax waited there because that's where Jurgen Windcaller established the order of the Greybeards. Your knowledge of lore is suspect and dubious at best, and this only goes to show that this is the case. We'll come back to this later on, since you bring up this point again since you've gotten your lore in reverse order, and you've gotten some of the names and times wrong too. But for now...

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Jurgen_Windcaller

 

"Jurgen Windcaller was a war leader of the Ancient Nords and Master of the Voice. He founded the Greybeards when he created the Way of the Voice."

 

Paarthurnax was appreciative of Jurgen's philosophies as he'd said a number of times. (If you'd cared to listen instead of coming up with cockamamie reasons to damn the poor dragon.) He remained to learn more of the ways of Jurgen Windcaller, and when Jurgen passed on, he became the Master of the Voice. Then, and not before.

 

This is why Paarthurnax is where he is.

 

 

3rd. according to Paarthurnax Alduin was gifted with a slightly more powerful Thu'um, Due to him being the first born.

Thu'um has nothing to do with order of birth, because if it had then the dragonborn's thu'um would have been weaker than Alduin's. But it was acknowledged by Paarthurnax and Odahviign that the dragonborn's thu'um was indeed stronger. And it was the dragonborn's thu'um that destroyed Paarthurnax in the end.

 

Again, this is another poorly considered... theory based upon flawed assumptions, without paying attention to the facts at hand.

 

 

4th. Paathurnax had been meditating on word's of power ever since Alduin's banishment. (When the Dragonborn meditate's on word's of power it make's his/her Thu'um stronger.)

No. As was stated by the Greybeards, Paarthurnax was meditating upon the teachings of the Way of the Voice, and how to best use the Voice in praise to the gods, who provided dragons and mortalkind alike with it. Jurgen Windcaller was the first to do this, and did much the same as Paarthurnax. Paarthurnax was merely following in Jurgen's footsteps.

 

Again, your... knowledge of lore is admirable. It's lead to yet another unsubstantiated theory.

 

 

5th. Paarthurnax only rebelled because other dragon's had begun to rebel as well.

Check your lore. Paarthurnax was the first and possibly only dragon to rebel. Sheesh.

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Paarthurnax

 

If you have any evidence to the contrary then I'd like to hear it, but if this mass rebellion of dragons that preceded Paarthurnax's rebellion actually happened, then you'd think it would be contained at the UESP of all places.

 

 

6th. Why didn't Alduin destroy Paarthurnax when he returned for helping mortal's to banish him?

The answer to this one is painfully obvious.

 

Many sources in the game said that Alduin was an is egotistical and arrogant. Why would an egotistical and arrogant dragon not bother with Paarthurnax? For the same reason that he didn't kill off the Dovahkiin the first time he saw him: Alduin didn't consider Paarthurnax or the Dovahkiin a threat, and he believed that marshalling his army through dragon resurrections should be his prime and only concern.

 

This remains the case until Alduin is challenged by you for the first time, the battle where the dragonborn first uses Dragon Rend. This puts fear into Alduin and for the first time he recognises the dragonborn and Paarthurnax as valid threats.

 

If you think about this logically, it makes sense.

 

 

7th. Paarthurnax DID NOT CREATE THE DRAGONBORN Paarthurnax only taught average mortal's the way of the voice. People like Jurgen Windcaller.

Oh for crying out loud. See? This is your knowledge of the lore, in all its delusional grandeur. And I only call you on this because you claimed to be such an incredible lore master yourself. And if you want to make a claim like that, nad you can't back it up, then you have to expect someone to call you on it.

 

As I explained above, Jurgen Windcaller created the Way of the Voice.

 

No, Paarthurnax did not create the dragonborn, but no one other than you has made that claim. So you've set up a fallacious claim to knock down yourself? Good for you. And no, Paarthurnax did not teach 'the way of the voice,' either. Let me do a little filling in here, so that you understand the lore proper.

 

Kynareth, the goddess, granted mortalkind the ability to harness the voice, but they couldn't figure it out on their own. In their darkest hour, Paarthurnax (yes, that guy, whom you hate so much) came to their aid and literally saved them. How did he do this? He was the one who taught them to harness the thu'um and turn it into a weapon that could be used against the dragons. With this new understanding of the thu'um, the warriors went on to create Dragon Rend, which ultimately lead to Alduin's defeat.

 

Paarthurnax (whom you hate so much) was instrumental in saving the lives of every human on Tamriel back then, and he risked everything to do so. He lost his family (Alduin was his brother, as you should at least know), his friends, and all dragon allegiances, all to save mortalkind. If he had not taught them to harness the thu'um, then there would never have been a Dragon Rend, and Alduin would have consumed the world back then.

 

Following this, Jurgen Windcaller claimed that the thu'um should not be a weapon, lest they would be the same as the dragons who use it. He believed that the thu'um should be used only in praise to the gods, and wove a set of philosophies, and soon thereafter a belief around that simple notion. He founded the Way of the Voice. (As I explained at length above.) So impressed was Paarthurnax that he too chose willingly to follow the teachings of Jurgen Windcaller.

 

I don't have the energy left for sarcasm, so I'll just say that by this point you absolutely must recognise your lack of knowledge about Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls in general as much as I see that lacking in you.

 

 

8th. On all my save's on different device's after Paarthurnax flies away, To try and talk sense into the other Dova I never see him again.(This may just be a bug i'm not sure.)

Now yer just fibbing. You can go back to Paarthurnax at any point after the main quest line and meditate with him. He's still peaceful, and he's always happy to see the dragonborn whenever he turns up.

 

 

And to be clear the dragon that can been seen flying around the throat of the mountain is Odahviing NOT Paarthurnax.

Well duh. >_> Ovahdiign's colour and design is drastically different from Paarth's, not hard to spot even when they're a good distance away.

 

My conclusion? You don't have the first clue what you're on about. Please stop.

 

Paarthurnax is an ethically charged good guy, a stand up dragon, a bloody great person, and an all around bro. Your irrational hatred of him speaks volumes of your absolute xneophobia.

 

Really, I wouldn't have been so harsh, but everything you've cited as fact actually falls under 'made up,' and I have little tolerance for made up nonsense being paraded around as fact when it's designed to make a character that I like look bad. Paarth is a bro, you're jealous and hateful for reasons I can't begin to imagine.

 

Go do your thing with those xenophobic has-been glam hounds you call The Blades.

[Lachdonin]

Me thinks you should calm down a touch there Duskwulf. While i agree with your interpretation, and i understand how people spouting rhetoric and argueing absolutes with partial information can be frusterating, its best to keep a level head. Shows you to be the better Dovah.

 

It is a true measure of justice that the guilty party seeks repentance for their crimes, it is true measure of vengence when a repentant party is killed for his crimes.

 

Paarthunax is repentant. That is an absolute fact. One of the few in Skyrim. He saved Humanity and has spent thousands of years in exile, watching as humans (and Akiviri) hunted his entire species to extinction, and still all he does is offer sage council and education to Humanity. Regardless of his past transgressions, he came to humanities aid of his own accord, and then did nothing to abuse what would certianly have been a powerful possition after Alduin's first defeat. The damned Dragons one step below a saint in my book.

 

The Blades, on the other hand, are a pair of parinoid old coots who can't change accept change. Convienient that their in Skyrim then hmm? They also seem completely unable to see the potential of Paarthunax and his teachings. Imagine, all of Dragon kind, placated and actually seeing the worth of humans beyond that of cattle? A cooperative existance between the two would be a grand thing indeed, and far too good an opportunity to pass up for vengence against crimes no one ever remembers.

 

There is no reason to kill Paarthunax, beyond generic Dragon-hate. Even then, anyone should be able to tell that his death would be worse in the long run, as without him there is no chance of peacefully quieting the Dragons, and they must all be killed. That would cost many lives, and whose to say the sollution would be perminant? You know, what with the Dovahkiin being mortal and all. He can't wipe out an entire species, even if he lives to a ripe old elven age of 1000.

[eltucu]

I think that this discussion shouldnt even be here. The reasons of why Paarthurnax must die were badly written.

 

Say for example, if alduin was lost in time, and Paarthurnax brought it to Nirn again, or if he had something to do with Alduins return at all, showing that he cant be trusted, i might have considered it.

 

It would have great to say to Esbern "If i find that Paarthurnax has ONE less scale than the last time i saw him, ill KILL YOU, then travel to Sovengarde, and REMOVE YOU from existence"

 

Beth completely missed the target there, they just made the Blades to look like dorks sadly (could have been one of the coolest factions in the game).

 

I agree with all that has been said in favor of leaving him alone.