MidbossVyers Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I just got to that point. Been playing non-stop for a good amount of days and have skipped the Blades questline for too long but I finally got to that meeting. I love Paarthurnax. The guy actually lived on top of a mountain for thousands of years and GUARDED Skyrim, waiting and waiting and waiting for Alduin while also helping people with learning the Voice. Delphin should not even be in that meeting. Who even invited her? I have the blood of a dragon, does that mean I have to suicide too? Blades is a stupid name anyway. Is there no way to kill Delphin? Cause I'm sure not going to please her. A few more questions, is Dark Brotherhood worthy of my presence? Cause I remember when I did the first quests for the Thieves, it kinda hurt me running around threatening people for 100 septims as I'm the kinda cool guy with good manners and ethics. Not that I don't live the Ragged Flagon, it's awesome. But what about DB? Please avoid spoilers, a simple and emphatic yes or no will do.Well, let me put it this way. Have you seen the movie, Hero, starring Jet Li? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltucu Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The issue isn't so much that the outcomes in FO1 and 2 didn't affect the world, its more in that only one outcome became canon. This is something of a running theme with FO games, though it may change, we don't really know. Yep, and i think it could become a running theme of TES just as nicely if Beth put their heads on it. I didnt really see anyone that pissed that his particular choise didnt ended cannon, did you? Its not that of an issue as you put it. That stuff its pulled out in lots of games. TES games, however, skirt by the issue by giving you the illusion of choice, but really only giving you a single outcome. The exception, of course, is Daggerfall, and the creation of the 'Warp In the West' and the associated Dragon Break was nothing short of genious, but if they were to have a Dragon Break every time there was a choice in the game, it would seem like time was unraveling. On Dragon Break is awesome. Two, eh. Three is too much, and more is just absurd. As i said, yes, if you write the thing to only end in one way, you'll end up having that sort of issues (not that i think that they would pull a dragon break, im no writer but im sure those ppl can figure out another way to handle that stuff, probably peace treaty is cannon and thats it). I just dont see why it wouldnt work. What you're saying is that they give us the illusion of choise. Well, they could just stop leveling illusion and start leveling other skills. They changed a lot the entire gameplay since morrowind they could change their writing style. Well, what i dont see is, why do you think that is a fundamental part of TES? Having only one outcome? You say it as it would break all the lore from Skyrim to Arena (not that all of the stuff in that game ended being canon, like Tamriel being called Arena). It wouldnt. It isnt a particular fundamental pillar of TES, its just a design choice. Thats all, something they can modify just like the modified skills, or removed mysticism. They could still have the dwarfs lost in who knows where, Vivec missing, the Nerevarine in Akavir, lots of bunch of stuff that make TES lore what it is completely intact. Fans would be as pissed for the attributes being removed as for making, say, empire ending cannon. And they would buy the game nevertheless. With aaaaaall the bitching that official TES forums saw bout it, they broke records nevertheless. As you said, they force upon you a single ending. If they're the ones to decide what is cannon and what it isnt, they couldnt just let me play in other ways nevertheless? Would that prevent them for keeping their desired ending for future games? If it is for the fans, did the fans said that the Nerevarine should go to Akavir? Did the fans said that the Champion of Cyrodiil must being Sheogorath? What if i didnt want to? Does it matter at all? Would that prevent me from enjoying the next TES? All im saying is that, if you're going to put A in the ingame history books, you may aswell let me choose B and C just to see how it would have been. Im not demanding that my choices end up in a future TES game, im demanding that you let me make a choise in THIS game. I let the story writting to them, but i expect them to let the gaming and roleplay to me. When dealing with continious story telling, too much choice isn't nessessarily a good thing. I spoke about more choice, not too much choice. When there isnt any, like you said (the "illusion of choise" thing), that isnt a necessarily good thing either. I do agree though, the range of voice acting and conversational choice in NV was vastly superior to Skyrim. Even if they just put in conversational choices which are for flavor, rather than trying to throw quest info at you, it would be an improvement.And they didnt said how many voice actors they had, nor they bragged about it before NV launch. The good stuff gets unnoticed. In fact, i think that NV got so many things right that no one talks about it. The complaints that i read are about Dead Money (number 1 DLC imo) or that it didnt have the exploration factor that FO3 had (not counting the quest bugs, but those are "common ground" at least in every game based on Beth's tech). I just cant see why an one hundred ppl development team cant have the kind of thing that Obsidian pulled out. I still think that Chris Avellone is a retard for that "crusade against 2nd hand market" and i dont even buy 2nd hand games. Well, now that i noticed, in the end looks that im repeating myself (you saying "but that is how TES works" then i say "but they could do things differently" then repeat lol). Lets just agree to disagree :) (and glad that this didnt turned out into a epeen fight like most forum discussions haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wael90 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well, let me put it this way. Have you seen the movie, Hero, starring Jet Li?Nope, sorry.. Is it good?Anyway, I had to kill my Skyrim since it bugged as I was switching windows. So I restarted the whole meeting. Same agreements, Riften and Winterhold to Imperials, Markarth to Stormcloaks. But this time I just ran away fast right by the end of it, I even took that cup from the table with me as I pressed E. Delphin never got to me. Will she approach me herself? Cause I don't want to talk to her, I just hope she won't bump into me somewhere. I also presume I have to maintain distance from her in order to avoid an auto-dialogue with her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terzho Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I killed paarthurnax and I justified it to myself this way. Paarthurnax was a war criminal. He can be forgiven but must still be punished. It's like a Nazi war criminal. You don't want them getting away with no punishment just because they've taken up meditation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinnorokkrah Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yes, but the difference is the Nazis had relevance. The war had just happened, and they actually thought what they were doing was right. Paarthurnax was following a gut reaction. As intelligent as dragons are, they still follow instinct quite a bit. More importantly it's been thousands of years since he's actually done anything wrong, and if the 'Atlas of Dragons' didn't exist [Which is still almost 1,000 years post-Dragon War] the Blades wouldn't even know Paarthurnax had done anything wrong. If they didn't know he'd committed war crimes they'd still want him dead. In any case- another major difference is that Paarthurnax accepts the wrongness of his actions and understands why the Blades are upset. The majority of Nazi criminals executed I know of were still professing innocence and confusion over why the UN was upset. Comparing Paarthurnax to a Nazi is like comparing a pit bull to a fanatic. One works on instinct, but has a feeling of something gone wrong afterwords, the other fervently believes that what they do is right. If you read the 'Atlas of Dragons' you'll see that the majority of dragons actually went into seclusion after Alduin's defeat, and barring a certain Imperial Red Dragon were pretty much peaceful hermits until they were killed. One dragon's off living in Morrowind and is probably still there, and the first dragon you fought and killed, Mirmulnir, had survived the Dragon War and had been hiding out in the Reach since the Second Era. Thus, he wasn't resurrected by Alduin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korodic Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I killed paarthurnax and I justified it to myself this way. Paarthurnax was a war criminal. He can be forgiven but must still be punished. It's like a Nazi war criminal. You don't want them getting away with no punishment just because they've taken up meditation.Not all Nazi's wanted to be at war. Look at it from their perspective, Hitler force fed propaganda and made it look like the world was out to destroy the furthering of German power. The other things is, if you tried to ditch being a guard at a concentration camp and go AWOL, they'd kill you on sight. They tried to hide their atrocities to the world, and caused a genocide, I doubt they;d think twice about shooting an unfaithful soldier assigned to his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wael90 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Are we seriously comparing Dragons to Nazis? This is insane.. Paarthurnax and dragons in general may seem cruel but also very honest in what they do, whether it's instinct or not. Are Blades being honest? Esberg is a cool guy, he seeks knowledge mainly and I'm sure if he was in the position to decide whether a dragon should be slaughtered or kept alive and study more about their cult, he'd probably pick #2. Except for when it comes to Alduin, he had to be killed. Delphin on the other hand was raised up with hatred, seeking revenge. Blades are meant to protect the Dragonborn and respect him.. So don't go around giving me orders with your clouded judgement just because you've been on your mental period since forever. I would kill her without second thought if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQ Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The way they handled this part of the game is very dissapointing and frustrating. It seems so forced, out of the blue, and is totally lacking depth. I mean, there is absolutely not enough data provided to be able to decide in favor of the blades and feel good about it. They provide almost no justification for their 'demand', and act like little spoiled brats that scream and cry until they get what they want. Parth is clearly reptentant, as someone pointed out before. Whatever evils he did (which you have no way of finding out b/c the blades themselves don't even know, and are just assuming he did some heinous stuff thousands of years ago), he rebelled against his own kind and as a result saved Tamriel from literally being eaten by Alduin. The blades logic is flawed, and their presentation of it suggests they're just not thinking straight and are acting out of paranoia/ignorance. If playing a vital role in saving Tamriel in the past (and again the present) didn't redeem his distant past evils, I don't know what would. And to kill him under the presumption that he's planning on turning againts mortalkind is crazy. How can I condemn someone for something they MIGHT do? Heck, everyone, including the dovakihn, has potential to turn 'evil'. In fact one of my characters IS VERY evil already. I think the blades in Skyrim have suffered from seriously bad writing on Bethsofts part. It seems like they just ran out of time, b/c they start out great then suddenly become ignorant babies. Very dissapointing, b/c Id love to rebuild the blades, but Ill never kill Parth until he actually DOES something that proves evil intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wael90 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would like to rebuild the Blades too, the temple is awesome and their ethics are not bad either. Could use them while fighting dragons. But their representatives are the worst there could possibly be. They are sworn to help and protect the Dragonborn. But they order him to kill the dragon or they will not help him. If they're dragonslayers, why are they not trying to slay Paarthurnax themselves? They suddenly modify their oath to suit their arrogance and satisfaction. Bethesda either tried to make it dramatic for us or they indeed ran out of time. Either way, Paarthurnax shall remain the king on The Throat of the World for me. Blades can sit on my Ebony Sword of Lifetaking (that's my enchanted Ebony Greatsword). :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korodic Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would like to rebuild the Blades too, the temple is awesome and their ethics are not bad either. Could use them while fighting dragons. But their representatives are the worst there could possibly be. They are sworn to help and protect the Dragonborn. But they order him to kill the dragon or they will not help him. If they're dragonslayers, why are they not trying to slay Paarthurnax themselves? They suddenly modify their oath to suit their arrogance and satisfaction. Bethesda either tried to make it dramatic for us or they indeed ran out of time. Either way, Paarthurnax shall remain the king on The Throat of the World for me. Blades can sit on my Ebony Sword of Lifetaking (that's my enchanted Ebony Greatsword). :P"help" - As if they did something I couldn't have done myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts