imperistan Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 As for the Blades, they in fact had two purposes...to guide and protect the Dragonborn...though their supposed guidance is straight up genocide of an entire species.....The funny thing, you feel Paarthurnax should be killed because he instinctively feels the need to "Dominate and Enslave", that's sounds like basic human nature to me, as a species we certainly seem hell bent on achieving just that anyway....check your own back yard first before condemning another Imperistan. Human beings can also be the instinctive opposite, and those that aren't (and aren't mentally insane and/or deficient mind you) don't have to fight as hard as Paarthurnax does to not act upon them. I for instance have an incredibly violent mind but I'm a pacfist even so. Dragon's on the other hand, have not demonstrated the capability of not instinctively being driven to dominate and enslave nor that they could suppress those urges easily. One dragon (sort of) has, but one dragon amongst the thousands if not hundreds of thousands that exist does not save the entire species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeban Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Well at least you have embraced the principles of the game which is, in my view, to eliminate everything that represents a potential threat. General Tullius does it. Ulfric does it so why not continue? The Greybeards, Paarthurnax, and the Blades, all have a very narrow and prejudiced view of what needs to be done. It's called crisis management. In Skyrim no-one wants to live with their neighbour. Talk about sectarian wars! StayFrosty05 has the right of it. It is very badly written in terms of role playing . There is no forseeable near future for either Skyrim or Tamriel that does not involve sudden death or a descent into barbarism and/or slavery. At a commoner level I guess that they have limited choices. Slavery under Alduin, the Altmeri, or Ulfric. Or maybe the Dragonborn has the vision and will to unite everyone? Can't see it in the script!. If you are looking for fleshed out roles for characters and maturely developed plot lines then Bethseda's TES is no longer the place to be. However it is still plenty fun at a basic kickass/dungeon crawl/exploration level and the graphics are stunning. Modders are busy doing what they did for Oblivion, though because of the bugs I can't see it being as good an end result. Nice point about educatiing the Nords though how they managed to even read or write in the first place is a little beyond me. Guess that was down to the Empire!. As for Nords co-operating with each other for long enough to allow the building of training schools and educational establishments? (They all hate mages) That's a bit like asking the Scottish clans to forgo all their blood feuds.Not one-hundred percent sure what you mean here, friend. I'm not advocating the Blades-style elimination of the dragons, more like exhorting the other races not to trust them and to hedge their bets accordingly. Dragons that aren't doing anything out of bounds should be left well enough alone, but those that continually attack me and the villages that I am attempting to drink my mead in... well, my Dragonborn has no remorse for taking their souls. But, I second (or third or fourth or whatever it is) the motion that the writing in a) Skyrim in general and b) this section of the game in particular is shockingly juvenile and shallow. Really, it just feels incomplete (the Blades), likely confirming its status as a victim of 11/11/11. Likely they had bigger and better things in mind when they were writing it, but... the ad campaign trumps all. I'm also pretty sure that folks in Tamriel are more or less just born to read and write, as I have never seen an actual school (teaching math! the horror!) in any TES game. There probably has been one or two more (maybe in the IC), but I can't say that I remember them. In this sense, the Nords are no different from anybody else (as in not having schools). Nice point about the Clans though, that definitely both made me laugh and nod my head. @imperistan I agree with you that dragons are likely faking it whilst deferring to a stronger power (the Dragonborn). Once the Dragonborn dies, however, then it is jump ball. But I don't think that all dragons should be eliminated based solely on that hypothetical. Instead, I'd favor a build-up (a deterrent) of power to wave in the face of the dragons when the Dragonborn passes on. Let them know that if they revert back to their old, domineering ways, that they won't have Alduin around anymore to rez them, even if they technically do still have their souls. But also let them know that if they want to help out building castles and fighting the Thalmor and such, that they are free to swoop some cattle (and Nazeem!) by way of thanks and payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relativelybest Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Dragons that aren't doing anything out of bounds should be left well enough alone, but those that continually attack me and the villages that I am attempting to drink my mead in... well, my Dragonborn has no remorse for taking their souls. So, does that mean your Dragonborn doesn't kill the dragons at the dragon lairs? Seeing as that would be doing the same thing as the dragons, I mean: invading their territory and attacking them unprovoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkiev Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 LMAO at relativelybest's post 345. :laugh: That's perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobwebmaster Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Not one-hundred percent sure what you mean here, friend. I'm not advocating the Blades-style elimination of the dragons, more like exhorting the other races not to trust them and to hedge their bets accordingly. Dragons that aren't doing anything out of bounds should be left well enough alone, but those that continually attack me and the villages that I am attempting to drink my mead in... well, my Dragonborn has no remorse for taking their souls. But, I second (or third or fourth or whatever it is) the motion that the writing in a) Skyrim in general and b) this section of the game in particular is shockingly juvenile and shallow. Really, it just feels incomplete (the Blades), likely confirming its status as a victim of 11/11/11. Likely they had bigger and better things in mind when they were writing it, but... the ad campaign trumps all. I'm also pretty sure that folks in Tamriel are more or less just born to read and write, as I have never seen an actual school (teaching math! the horror!) in any TES game. There probably has been one or two more (maybe in the IC), but I can't say that I remember them. In this sense, the Nords are no different from anybody else (as in not having schools). Nice point about the Clans though, that definitely both made me laugh and nod my head. I agree that the blades generally (even that rather nice spoken absent minded old geezer found in the sewers) should be treated like a suspect package - prodded with a stick in the hope that it would go away. After the discovery of Alduin's wall and it's embodied pictograms at no point did either the fifty something pub landlord or the seventy something librarian offer to help and/or obey the Dragonborn's orders. At that point they started to become part of the problem not the solution, unless of course you decide to play the game simply as a dragonslayer and general homicidal maniac. At that point I guess it doesn't much matter who or what you erase as long as you keep accumulating skills. I am more comfortable with the role of Dragonslayer as a defensive measure rather than as a pre-emptive strike. Of course if some flying ugly decides to incinerate my nice thatched roof at Breezehome and burn my stock of ingredients I am going to take exception to that much in the same way as I would at a charging mammoth interrupting my general revelry with a bunch of Nord partyers swilling mead in the middle of a blizzard - It does seem odd that Bestheda opted for a cross for somewhere between a 1st person rpg and a Wagnerian Siegfeid thus irritating both genre addicts and opera lovers simultaneously. Killing Paarthurnax in the overall scheme of things (vis a vis stopping Alduin) is only relevant to the fanatical blades. He doesn't represent an actual threat only a potential one. Personally I'm more concerned about dealing with the current problem rather than pursuing someone else's ancient and second hand vendetta. "Old Blade kill dragon me kill dragon that what me must be here for. Also me kill Adlmeri cos they strong and elves smell like sheepdip and too tall. I left that sort of stuff behind me after watching Clayton Moore and Jay Silverheels in the tv series " The Lone Ranger" . "Him dead ke-moh-sab-ee, me glad" They don't write scripts like that any more, or do they? Sorry I digress. Individual dragons represent a potential threat. I don't eliminate things because they might turn me into a crispy critter, only if they actually try to or have already dined on a few of the indigenous population! With Alduin organising them they are a problem -Head of the snake and all that. Dealing with unorganised dragons, sleeping dragons, those perched in an eyrie or on the shoulder of Akatosh (they're his kids why don't he do summat?), or just those using harsh language is a problem for another day or maybe not. Some guys offer giants a sacrificial mooer to stop them from eating the local children but has anybody ever tried to sing to them, lend them a book, a lute, twll a joke or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukeban Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 So, does that mean your Dragonborn doesn't kill the dragons at the dragon lairs? Seeing as that would be doing the same thing as the dragons, I mean: invading their territory and attacking them unprovoked.To the extent that such places can really be called "lairs" (implying that it is a natural place for a dragon to hang out as well as its ownership by said dragon), all I can say is that I am never the one to fire the first shot. My Dragonborn is simply looking for Word Walls to enhance his understanding of the dragon tongue, not to start a fight. Said dragons do not even give him the courtesy of an Eastwood-style "Get off my lawn," instead it is attack, attack, attack. My Dragonborn cannot be held responsible for their error in judgment. @Cobweb All truth. I would, actually, prefer Tonto to Lydia. Not exactly easy on the eyes, but far more pleasant company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayFrosty05 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So, does that mean your Dragonborn doesn't kill the dragons at the dragon lairs? Seeing as that would be doing the same thing as the dragons, I mean: invading their territory and attacking them unprovoked.To the extent that such places can really be called "lairs" (implying that it is a natural place for a dragon to hang out as well as its ownership by said dragon), all I can say is that I am never the one to fire the first shot. My Dragonborn is simply looking for Word Walls to enhance his understanding of the dragon tongue, not to start a fight. Said dragons do not even give him the courtesy of an Eastwood-style "Get off my lawn," instead it is attack, attack, attack. My Dragonborn cannot be held responsible for their error in judgment. I do the same.... :happy:.... Funny thing about that in my game....I'm not sure if it's a mod or a glitch (I only have one Dragon Mod 'Dragon Swarms')...but there is a Dragon battle buddy in my game who turns up once in a while, when he turns up it's at the most opportune moments when my Dovahkin is facing swarms of enemies and starts attacking all those who are attacking the Dovahkin....It's not Odahviing (I haven't done that quest yet) and this Dragon is golden in color...I have no idea where he has come from but he is certainly most welcome in my game.... :happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayFrosty05 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) As for the Blades, they in fact had two purposes...to guide and protect the Dragonborn...though their supposed guidance is straight up genocide of an entire species.....The funny thing, you feel Paarthurnax should be killed because he instinctively feels the need to "Dominate and Enslave", that's sounds like basic human nature to me, as a species we certainly seem hell bent on achieving just that anyway....check your own back yard first before condemning another Imperistan. Human beings can also be the instinctive opposite, and those that aren't (and aren't mentally insane and/or deficient mind you) don't have to fight as hard as Paarthurnax does to not act upon them. I for instance have an incredibly violent mind but I'm a pacfist even so. Dragon's on the other hand, have not demonstrated the capability of not instinctively being driven to dominate and enslave nor that they could suppress those urges easily. One dragon (sort of) has, but one dragon amongst the thousands if not hundreds of thousands that exist does not save the entire species. I'm obviously more cynical about the world than you are and am known to be a little more extreme in my views regarding what is considered enslavement and domination....humanitarian/liberationist/greenie...take your pick, I have them all covered.....Agreeing to disagree would be the best choice here I believe. Edited July 16, 2012 by StayFrosty05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperistan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm autarchist, so whatever views you have on those two concepts, my views are more extreme. Guaranteed. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StayFrosty05 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm autarchist, so whatever views you have on those two concepts, my views are more extreme. Guaranteed. :) LOL...yeah, we wouldn't play nice together on a number of topics...guaranteed.... :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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