Bunik Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I totally agree with TheSpeaker above. Very well written indeed. What is important that Bethesda made a huge progress from Oblivion elves. Whether you think they look good or bad that's a personal taste. There will be many mods to suit your needs in the future. Personally the inability to create the woodelf I wanted forced me to go with a nord. But only few improved textures and voila the feel is much better for me. I still think there could have been some more customization options to faces. For example making them more round. Altering shape of cheeks to make bones less prominent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patcazzo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It's true that at the moment, those who don't like the way elves are now, are limited to texture replacers etc. But soon enough, the Creation Kit, or Set, or whatever you want to call it, will be out, and then artistic freedom truly can run around naked in the rain, if you want it to. However, to say that Bethesda is "wrong" in terms of their portrayal of the elves, and that the elves need to be "fixed", is not for any us to say. This is their game, this is their vision. They give us the opportunity to mod their game as a welcome to challenge their vision, and make Skyrim our own. For that, I respect them. Totally agree with you. I played Dunmer, Altmer and Bosmer and I was quite satisfied with their look. Thanks to that the Altmer got an awesome snobish look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrytigerp Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I beg pardon for making such a crude analogy, but complaining about not being able to get the elves to look the way you want them would be like getting upset that none of your Asian friends are blond and you really like blond hair. Without external factors like dyes/bleaching (read: mods) or some combination of a dozen recessive genes or something like that (managing to create a character that JUST inches into your boundary of being aesthetically pleasing), they will never be blond. Stop trying to change the fact and say we should all accept it, that's simply not a defining feature of their race. In TES the Mer races are different from humans. Period. No amount of 'tweaking' will change the fact. You are welcome to mod it, I'm not denying you that right, so don't go on with the whole bit about "IT'S OUR GAME BETHESDA PROVIDES THE TOOLS WE CAN PLAY HOW WE WANT HOW DOES THAT AFFECT YOU", etc.; That is not my point of contention at all. Please don't say, though, that Bethesda somehow 'messed up' because you can't get the look you want... because it is not what the Mer should look like. No amount of complaining about "ugh i can't even play an elf because it looks so ugly" will change the fact that, well, some people in TES universe consider all Mer irrevocably ugly, and you are basically the same as those characters. But don't go saying that this means Bethesda should change the design, it simply means that you don't appreciate the inhumanity of these beings. Edited November 23, 2011 by angrytigerp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I actually agree with the comments by Bunik and TheSpeaker to some extent. But the point with Oblivion was that although the default faces were puffy, the face sliders offered the prospect for those who were skilled at face making to do something about it. I do like a more chiselled and delicate look for the elves, but what we have been given in Skyrim is really extreme. I purposely stuck with the traditional red Dunmer eyes for example, but with a higher res eye mod version which really pops. But lack of sliders for detailed shaping is a real problem for me. The reason the anime comment really pisses people off is because it is a stock response that people tend to copy when they just want to troll. It pisses me off personally because I have never read or watched any anime and therefore I refuse to be labelled as making anime characters. I had great sport with that little troll cave known as SomethingAwful.com when they mounted a campaign to get Japanese modders to stop modding and used some of my screens as an example, which I took great delight in pointing out were of a race mod (featuring WoW type elves)for Oblivion actually made by a German modder and a US tattoo wizard, and beta tested by a Brit. I don't like the gigantic breasts mods myself either, but nor do I believe that for a character to look normal or like they could fight they have to be flat breasted. Standard boob sizes vary a lot, and an E cup doesn't stop you drawing a bow. Also, believe it or not, some people do have large eyes, not everyone has small eyes, so game characters reflect this. @angrytigerp - you are straying into the bounds of offensiveness with that analogy by equating those of us who dislike what Beth have dome with the Skyrim elves with racists. I do actually have a number of Asian friends and like them just the way they are, thank you. And how can you be so morally certain about what the mer should look like? You are also taking absolutely no notice of what has actually been said. I for one have said that I understand the need for the mer to look different from the humans, but deplore the way that they have gone so far as to make the female mer look like males. Bethesda's tradition dating to Morrowind was, as I pointed out in a previous post, for the Dunmer to actually be perceptibly attractive including to other TES universe races, rather than akin to monstrous aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwellufool Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 To add a little perspective here, I never played anything but Bretons and Imperials in Oblivion. Mer were ugly to me, argonians and cat-folk didn't have any appeal to me. And with Skyrim, I have a Wood Elf that I love (just spent a little time customizing and he looks amazing to me), I'm working on an Orc background but I'm really excited to play them because they just look and seem so damn awesome in looks and lore. I still can't play Altmer. I couldn't stand to play one of those snobby folk, not to mention I still find them ugly. I could probably do a Dark Elf if I wanted to. My perception of Elves is almost entirely through fictional reading, which helps me a lot in this situation. You normally don't think out the looks of a person in a book entirely, you just have a general hazy idea of what they might or should look like. To me, they nailed everything but the Bretons. Those forehead wrinkles bug me to no end... and maybe Argonians. But just because they look scary. (Ironically, I love dark fantasy and horror fantasy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpeaker Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Just a side note with regards to what you've said, ginnyfizz - At no point did I say that we are all restricted to small eyes and breasts, or whatever else for our characters, as you seem to be implying. To clarify, my problem was just with the exaggeration that some modders employ, which can give mods of an anime slant a bad name. Offense wasn't my intention. Also, regarding your comments on the elves. While I do appreciate their new design, I agree that there does need to be a higher degree of facial customization. I personally find some of the preset female Altmer to be very beautiful actually, but creating a male Altmer from the presets that doesn't look like he'll poke your eyes out with his chin seems to be a challenge. Edited November 23, 2011 by TheSpeaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'm glad to hear it. There is frequently a lot of talk on here about the fact that certain features like large eyes or breasts are abnormal, when in fact they come in all shapes and sizes. I would certainly agree that there are mods that go much too far for my taste - like some of the very extreme variants on HGEC. The body mod I'd really like to see for Skyrim would be Type 3 or something like that, with the weight slider that we already have for Skyrim you could make your elves more slender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunik Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I'm glad to hear it. There is frequently a lot of talk on here about the fact that certain features like large eyes or breasts are abnormal, when in fact they come in all shapes and sizes. I would certainly agree that there are mods that go much too far for my taste - like some of the very extreme variants on HGEC. The body mod I'd really like to see for Skyrim would be Type 3 or something like that, with the weight slider that we already have for Skyrim you could make your elves more slender. Type 3 wouldn't be bad, but so would be HGEC. Exnem's (like FO3) wouldn't be bad either, except the texture compatibility. (Not saying that I don't like the way Exnem went, the result was good)As I was working on some mods (never published anything though) I can imagine there will be much work needed to make bodies compatible with the weight slider. You know... plygons overlaping, wrong mesh and textrue deformations etc. Can't wait for updated NIFSkope and importer for 3dsMax. But that is already off topic here. Anyway no matter what anyone's taste is I stand by the decision Bethesda did to make the races more distinctive. They did an outstanding job on all of them (well bretons maybe... :P ). For the first time I was even considering to play an ORC!The only issue is I couldn't create character for the race I would like to play, that is all. I love seeing those races in the game though. :) And for all the souls who are disapointed from whatever reason. Let's wait for tools and then UNLEASH THE FULL POWER OF MODDING muhuhehehe. Edited November 23, 2011 by Bunik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored417 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I definitely prefer the elves now over Oblivion. Like it was said before, they are much more like the Morrowind elves. They have a much more alien and exotic look. A whole other species of humanoids, rather then balding middle aged men with pointy ears. I missed the Morrowind Dunmer voices too. These elves have an air of an ancient continent dominating race. Not a freak mutant off shoot of the humans. Oh yeah, the wood elves are infinitely better now, they don't remind me of hobbits anymore. And the altmer (what I currently play) have more character now I feel.I hated in oblivion how only the beast races felt different from humans to me. No one would ever treat me differently for being an elf, and I swear elves in Cyrodil barely even knew what they were. Edited November 23, 2011 by bored417 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alkaloid27 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 in oblivion how only the beast races felt different from humans to me. No one would ever treat me differently for being an elf, and I swear elves in Cyrodil barely even knew what they were. Which kinda fits in with lore, right? Accidentally or not... it's what the races in their home provinces say of the rest. :D love to you and your altmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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