LE Improving the Blades

[Drytor]

I actually quite like the idea of keys or buttons or some such opening new parts of the Temple. Perhaps there's an underground library the Prior can dwell in, seeing as there won't be anywhere like Weynon Priory in Skyrim, with other rooms as well. Like the Skyforge of Whiterun why can't there be a Dragon Forge of the Blades? Perhaps heated by an actual Dragon!!! But I'm getting way too excited over this.

 

If we're not going with Karthspire then what about the caves just inside and on the way to SHT? I've mentioned before that nothing respawns there and it could at least be a gathering point or even a place for a market and some sleeping quarters to avoid SHT interior getting too crowded. But failing that any underground areas could be a seperate cell accessible only through SHT unless the intention is to have them directly joining

[Logiwink]

I understand the motives behind making crafting stations at SHT purchase-able, and I definitely see where people are coming from on that. Personally, I would prefer to make different facilities at SHT unlock when you recruit the appropriate NPC (e.g. recruit the wizard and you get the enchanting table). I think this is the way to go because it allows us to do something cool that the Project Lead on the Assassin's Creed games subscribes to: when the player accomplishes something you don't just give the a story bonus but you give them a gameplay bonus as well. In AC they do it by giving you a new weapon or new maneuver. In this mod I'd like to do it by making visible, usable improvements to SHT.

 

And yes, every time I use that acronym my brain pronounces it...unfortunately.

 

You can already buy player houses and upgrade them, I don't think we even need to make money/funding a major issue for the Blades in this mod. Yes it would add realism but I also feel it could harm the enjoyment. I don't want to penalize players for being poor; and if you're going to solve that by having Blades quests generate the income you need to get the stuff, then why not just cut out the middleman? Financing can be taken care of off-screen and alluded to in conversation.

 

We could link "basic" unlocks like forge, enchanting table, etc. to recruitment missions but have other upgrades (traps for the entrance, expanded library collection with readable books, banners to decorate SHT) as purchasable. So functional improvements would be free with NPC while vanity/luxury improvements would cost player money.

 

That's just my two cents on the topic.

 

 

Also - SHT Caves (approach to main entrance). Definite potential for renovation.

 

About Questlines: I think it's important to decide some structural things about the questline. We have several ideas floating around now 1)Dragon Kill vs. ally 2) Bring back the Order of Talos 3)Busting the Thalmor. As much as I like choice, we need to set achievable goals. I think the way that Jibstaman has outlined it makes sense:

 

Player decides dragon kill vs. ally (Paarthurnax as test case) --> questline that transitions from dragon kill/recruitment to anti-Thalmor missions --> big showdown vs the Thalmor

 

Order of Talos quests can be sprinkled in as optional side-quests like the Thieves Guild has.

 

So let's junk the three-pronged quest-tree, that's too much. The new questline will be largely similar between the Dragon-Kill or Ally but the big finish will be different with Dragon Allies (perhaps if you go the dragon-kill route you take more casualties of your hard-hired NPCs from recruitment missions). There is also the potential for dragon allies to betray the player (not my favorite option) or the Other Dragons could come interfer with their assisting the dragonborn at the big showdown with the Thalmor. In any case, it shouldn't be a simple case of 1) Get Dragon 2)???? 3) Profit! (By Profit I mean kick arse with Dragon allies). There should be complicators a la Firefly.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Logiwink

[Drytor]

Agreed, purchasable things should be at a minimum. It's a quest and area with progression, not an affordable luxury (though the purchasable traps and such gets a thumbs up)

 

I think it may be a little early days right now to be thinking too much into what happens with the Dragons/Thalmor. We still need to flesh out the whole recruiting and rebuilding of the Blades then add this on afterwards. Or am I just being pessemistic?

[JibstaMan]

You can already buy player houses and upgrade them, I don't think we even need to make money/funding a major issue for the Blades in this mod. Yes it would add realism but I also feel it could harm the enjoyment. I don't want to penalize players for being poor; and if you're going to solve that by having Blades quests generate the income you need to get the stuff, then why not just cut out the middleman? Financing can be taken care of off-screen and alluded to in conversation.

 

We could link "basic" unlocks like forge, enchanting table, etc. to recruitment missions but have other upgrades (traps for the entrance, expanded library collection with readable books, banners to decorate SHT) as purchasable. So functional improvements would be free with NPC while vanity/luxury improvements would cost player money.

 

That's just my two cents on the topic.

 

Order of Talos quests can be sprinkled in as optional side-quests like the Thieves Guild has.

And that's all I needed, your two cents! :biggrin:

Enough content can already be made, without having to think about people selling tools and other "creative" solutions. I also think, for the sake of money, people might want to go cheat extra carry weight to sell more stuff, let's not stimulate that. Although... this also means that we can't rebuild SHT after the first time we enter, we're dependent on the recruitments we make.

I like the decorative purchasables. But I would like your two cents concerning a special Blades Forge / Dragon Forge / Haven Forge or whatever name. This could be the only forge that is capable of creating Akaviri weaponry and Blades armor.

 

I think it may be a little early days right now to be thinking too much into what happens with the Dragons/Thalmor. We still need to flesh out the whole recruiting and rebuilding of the Blades then add this on afterwards. Or am I just being pessemistic?

To be honest, I'm not concerning myself with all those Dragon stuff (maybe later with idea's). It might as well be above my skill level, but I think I'll stick with recruitment stuff. Maybe making some other mods that could be handy with this one. The idea of Logiwink for harder puzzles could be something, maybe a yield into recruit system (someone you're fighting surrenders by yielding, you spare his life and he'll be sort of your possession), maybe the Shout Crafting system... But we'll see. I might as well change my mind, after all the time I've worked on this mod.

Edited December 5, 2011 by JibstaMan

[Logiwink]

Drytor - No, I think you're being realistic. The thing that is most likely to kill this mod in the cradle is taking on too much. I think right now we have a good frame for the recruitment process, a good sampling of what sort of NPCs can be recruited and how they will benefit the Blades.

 

The Dragon Kill/Ally quests are definitely slated to be part of stage three of this mod. To lay out the development stages as I currently see them:

 

Stage 1: Make fully upgraded Sky Haven Temple for use as a player-base. Simple SHT-based puzzle-quest to open the Armory.

Stage 2: NPC recruitment missions with SHT upgrades linked to completing each recruitment missions.

Stage 3: Dragon Kill/Ally Questline with the Thalmor Showdown

Stage 4: Order of Talos Optional Sidequests, Other Bonus Features

 

The natural ebb and flow of mod development seems to be that people drop in and out fairly regularly with leadership being handed off. My hope is that everyone will sign on for a minimum of one Stage and they make the call on whether or they want to continue.

 

Right now I envision doing Stage one by myself while anyone else who is interested can be working on elements of Stage 2. Depending on team member's abilities, preferences we might also be working on Stage 3 as we are finalizing stage two, and so on.

 

Everyone has a life of some sort, so if people need to drop out no explanation is needed. Everyone who currently wants to be on the team please let me know which of these jobs strikes your fancy:

 

1) Conversation scripting

2) Voice Acting

3) Level Design

4) NPC design (faces, gear, abilities)

5) 3D modeling for new items

6) Textures for new items

7) Adventure Scripting

8) Playtesters

 

Personally, I'm going to call dibbs on designing the new SHT layout (don't worry it'll get sent around for people to try out and comment on). I've got zero experience with 3D modeling and textures so I'd love to get someone who knows what they are doing with that. The other stuff I feel we can learn as we go although having a script guru around would be sweet. I also found someone who offered to make us a Trailer movie when the full mod is ready to go.

 

EDIT - Jibstaman, I do like the idea of a Blades/Haven Forge with smith-able Akiviri weapons and armor. If we wanted to we could separate out getting the forge from making the Akiviri stuff available. For example, get forge, then go on a quest in the library hunting down the schematics. Or perhaps go find some special tools needed for the forge (Akiviri forge tools?).

Edited December 5, 2011 by Logiwink

[Drytor]

I've started work on a script of sorts for recruiting companions as well as a quest line. I've so far managed to do one Blacksmith option and I hope to finish off the entire Blacksmith recruiting quest line idea tomorrow and then perhaps get started on the Quartermaster if I have time. Obviously it's mainly my own ideas based on our discussions on here and some of JibstaMan's outlines have also given me an idea, I'm just trying to write it as an actual script and such to follow that will just need tweaking when I'm done. I shouldn't think it'll take me more than a couple of weeks

 

On the Akaviri weapons, maybe the smith is skiled enough to replicate the armour which you can then purchase?

 

EDIT: How would everybody else feel about the possibility of persistant summoned creatures as NPC recruits with voices? I was thinking somewhere along the lines of a Deadra or some such

Edited December 5, 2011 by Drytor

[Draco856]

I would like to still be able to kill Paarthurnax, but for different reasons then the Blades, I killed him in my game because I wanted to take over in the power vacuum left by Alduin, Paarthurnax would have filled that role if I didn't kill him and I would have been relegated to a lackey. So, maybe we can still go the path of friendship in a way that's not wholly dependent on weather Paarthurnax lives or dies. After all, we still have Odahviing, I still hold out hope for a full on dragon resurrection system, but that's not for this mod, it doesn't really fit with the scope of rebuilding the Blades. So we have Dragon kill/ally quests, we need two paths for each, if we go the kill path, we have to kill Paarthurnax and for the second part we have to kill the other named dragons in the world (other then Odahviing), of which there are several. For the ally quests, we can choose to either kill Paarthurnax or let him live, while still keeping any relations with the Greybeards intact, same thing with the Blades, we have to convince them of our reasons for going down this path.

 

Persistent summoned Daedra would be nice, like we do in the College quests, we have to summon an Unbound Dremora to get a component for a quest (sigil stone), we had to fight him a few times before he bent to the players will. Persistent summons is a good idea, Daedra that serve the summoner or the Blades as a whole, we could also go a bit further with that and summon up spirits of the Blades that have died in the past, maybe some former residents of Sky Haven Temple? They could be the key to finding some of these hidden rooms.

[Kairo29]

When upgrading SHT, would there be options to set up traps? Still haven't gotten to that part of the main quest so havent seen it for myself yet. In the current storyline you guys have together, will the blades take the fight TO the Thalmor? Or will there be Thalmor attacks on SHT where upgrading traps would help in protecting it?

 

Will SHT have a kennel? Haha, trained hounds/wolves would be cool perhaps *shrug*

 

I'd be happy to help with 1, 2, & 7. Unfortunately don't have any modding experience, and this would be my 1st time, but maybe I can learn a thing or two. Would like to see more detailed explanation of what each area entails and what tools would be needed on our end to really help out. I built a rig this past summer and don't mind getting new programs or equipment to help (provided I can afford it lol) cuz it sounds like a fun project to be a part of.

 

I enjoy story elements, so when it comes to actual lines of dialogue and crafting it, I'd be willing to offer my prose if wanted. :)

Can also help with the busy work like spell checking, typos, and conversation flow. Just let me know.

[Logiwink]

Persistent Summons - I'd feel better about something like this if there was only one and it was attached to the recruited wizard, otherwise I'm confused about how they got there, what are they doing, etc.

 

Akiviri Armor and Weapons - definitely available for purchase, but should that be default or should you have to enable purchase/crafting of them somehow? Also, how protective should the armor be compared to Dragon Plate, Daedric, Ebony armors? Current plans include making the heavy armor set from vanilla craftable as well as a set of Blades mage robes and Blades Light Armor along with tanto (knife), katana (vanilla blades one hand sword), and odachi (two hand katana style sword).

 

Drytor - can't wait to see those conversation scripts. When you're ready for input why not put them on Google Docs so we can comment on them.

 

Blades Kennel - awesome idea, but we only can do this if we make the trainer look like Cesar Millan. Seriously. Blades Dog Whisperer.

[Draco856]

For persistent summons, they could be anything really. If we summon up the ghosts of the Blades that used to live in SHT they could simply resume their role there. They'd be bound to the temple grounds and they could act as guards. Guards that don't need to sleep, eat, rest, or do anything except watch for enemies. We could conjure up Dremora servants, they have many uses, labor, guards, smiths, mages, they could probably take on any role given to them by the one that summoned them, either by control or respect. We could use the Unbound Dremora as an example of this, as an Unbound while you may have summoned him, he didn't have to obey you, and he resists your orders for a time. You had to banish him back to oblivion a few times before he would obey, we could do something like this for any Dremora we summon in SHT, they might not listen to us at first, but after we kill them a few times they should bend to our will. Though I'm sure Mehrunes Dagon won't like us stealing his servants, that could be a consequence of it. If we summon too many Dremora Dagon sends a champion or two, mortals in the service of Dagon given powers beyond the normal scope of things and we'd have to fight and kill them in combat before we could summon any more Dremora, and with each new level, more, and stronger champions would come after us.