LE Improving the Blades

[Draco856]

Well, if guess I'll have to concede defeat on the Paarthurnax issue, everyone seems to like him for some reason, personally I think he was a bit aloof the whole time we spoke. Guess I'll just have to find a way to make a dragon resurrection mod or something, some way to change that choice cause I want to have the Dragon Ally quests, but it Paarthurnax is a requirement for them, I'm SOL...

 

 

For the Blades ghost, maybe someone more experienced then Baurus? Jauffre maybe, he was the Grandmaster at the time, or maybe the Blades captain that you first meet when going to Cloud Ruler Temple. Though I'm thinking someone with a more intimate knowledge of Sky Haven Temple would be better suited for this role, someone who knows all the ins and outs of the temple, any hidden rooms, etc. A Blade from Cloud Ruler Temple wouldn't fit this role, but it might be nice to have some old friends.

[Drytor]

That's why I thought Juaffre. He wa the Grandmaster and must have known a lot about the whole Dragonborn situation and about Alduin's Wall. There are no records of his existance post Oblivion Crisis and He no longer had a Dragonborn to lead him and the Blades so maybe he left Weynon Priory and came to Sky Haven Temple in search of answers and to await a new Dragonborn who hasn't come until now!

[AoCBane]

If you would like voice actors I would be happy to lend my voice.

[Drytor]

This maybe getting a little complicated and possibly be a bit further down the road but if we have different options for recruits how plausible would it be to have recruit perks? With the Smith, for example, instead of having exactly the same forge and a different NPC what if there was some benefit each recruit brought. One might have a smelter while the others don't. Personally I was thinking more along the lines of with recruit 1) you have to buy the forge through dialogue, recruit 2) can add the Dragonbane enchantment to any weapon and recruit 3) makes already improved armour.

 

Again, I don't even know if this is possible but would give more of a reward for taking on the more difficult recruitment quests

[Draco856]

Well, Jauffre wouldn't have been able to even enter Sky Haven Temple, it required the blood of a Dragonborn to even open the door, and the records of Alduin's Wall were lost, because if they were there I'm sure there might have been some provisioning for the day he returned, but it was completely unawares to the world at large. So, while he could be a good choice, he wouldn't have the knowledge of the Temple that I think we need. SHT was basically stricken from most records, it took Esbern a while to even find enough snippets of information to put the pieces together.

 

Edit:

 

I had another idea while reading another topic, what about the original Blades? The Snake-People of Akavir? I can't spell their name so I'm not going to try, but they sought out the first Dragonborn and formed the Blades, by a different name, but it was the original incarnation of the Blades, maybe we could have a few of them suddenly show up looking to either join the Blades (Dragonslayers), or they will become our enemies (Dragon Allies).

Edited December 7, 2011 by Draco856

[JibstaMan]

This maybe getting a little complicated and possibly be a bit further down the road but if we have different options for recruits how plausible would it be to have recruit perks? With the Smith, for example, instead of having exactly the same forge and a different NPC what if there was some benefit each recruit brought. One might have a smelter while the others don't. Personally I was thinking more along the lines of with recruit 1) you have to buy the forge through dialogue, recruit 2) can add the Dragonbane enchantment to any weapon and recruit 3) makes already improved armour.

 

Again, I don't even know if this is possible but would give more of a reward for taking on the more difficult recruitment quests

I've though about this too, more in a sense that one makes two-handed weapons more then one-handed, and another makes light-armor rather then heavy. But I think that's not a great idea... there is always the possibility of adding and removing leveled lists from the merchant chest, so this could also be done by asking the smith to do more ... and less ..., but again, maybe it isn't even that useful to the player.

About whether it is possible, thinking about if it could be done in Oblivion, only option two would be hard, I think that would require "Oblivion Script Extender", considering the "any weapon" part.

 

Another thought:

Drytor's first smith recruitment dialog is an excellent first draft and is my favorite of the three currently on his google doc.

Maybe we could make it ourselves a lot easier by giving the Smith job only one possible NPC, the (first) one Drytor wrote. He could be the one to introduce the special forge side-quest. And about the "Already improved armour", we could just steal from Skyforge... cause that stupid forge creates "Skyforge steel", not Steel (Flawless) or anything.

The student story could be changed into an Alchemy student (although the Imperial race and greedy part might need to change then :confused: ) and the Forsworn guy could be the sharpshooter, or maybe the thief. I'm trying to say I believe they can probably be reused for other jobs.

 

Well, Jauffre wouldn't have been able to even enter Sky Haven Temple, it required the blood of a Dragonborn to even open the door, and the records of Alduin's Wall were lost, because if they were there I'm sure there might have been some provisioning for the day he returned, but it was completely unawares to the world at large. So, while he could be a good choice, he wouldn't have the knowledge of the Temple that I think we need. SHT was basically stricken from most records, it took Esbern a while to even find enough snippets of information to put the pieces together.

 

Edit:

 

I had another idea while reading another topic, what about the original Blades? The Snake-People of Akavir? I can't spell their name so I'm not going to try, but they sought out the first Dragonborn and formed the Blades, by a different name, but it was the original incarnation of the Blades, maybe we could have a few of them suddenly show up looking to either join the Blades (Dragonslayers), or they will become our enemies (Dragon Allies).

I would think the other way around. It is because of Jauffre's research that he or later descendants had build these special defenses. Not long after the end of the Oblivion Crisis, it was obvious that the Blades were in danger. So making it a hid-out was the best way to go and making traps and other defenses would be advisable. But that might not be entirely (lore-)correct... See spoiler for the information I gathered about this (and some more...)

 

After Martin Septims death there was no heir to the throne, the Empire was weakened. High Chancellor Ocato and the Blades try to maintain order. But soon Ocato was assassinated by the Thalmor. [source: Fourth Era] At the Fourth Era, the Blades underestimated the Thalmor, and acted against them before the Great War. When it began, at 30th of Frostfall, a Thalmor Emissary delivered a hundred of heads belonging to the Blades that acted in the Aldmeri Dominion, showing that they were uncovered. After the Great War, the Blades disbanded at the order of the "White Gold Concordat", a Treaty that outlawed the worship of Talos and ordered the Blades to disappear. Taking advantage of the fact that the Blades worshipped Talos, and fueled by a great hatred from the Great War, the Thalmor made a slaughter at the main Blade fortresses, such as the Cloud Ruler Temple. [source: The Blades] On Alduin's Wall: The Blades shown in the image bow before the Dragonborn. They’ve protected the line of the Dragonborn for generations in anticipation of this moment, when a Dragonborn would rise to face Alduin upon his return.

 

About the Snake-people of Akavir, them showing up is probably not lore friendly, considering they're all eaten... And on a mod creation point of view, this requires to add a new race, just saying.

[Draco856]

The Snake-People were the eaters, not the eaten. Read the book "Mysterious Akavir" for what we currently know about them. But yeah, it's beyond this mod. Esbern said that the lock on the temple was a Blood lock, it needed a specific bloodline to open, namely the line of a Dragonborn. No one else could have opened it but you, if it was possible for someone else to open the door to the temple I'd think there would have been people inside and the door open all ready. As well as knowledge about the wall would have been known instead of obscure.

 

The Tsaesci are the Snake-People - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tsaesci

[JibstaMan]

I've been thinking about how to convince Delphine to change her mind. Instead of changing her character in this mod to someone more willing to listen and less stubborn, maybe give her some sort of psychological breakdown.

"The Blades have no purpose anymore. I've had years of hiding behind me. I could never trust anyone. The new friends I made didn't know the real me, telling them would only bring them in danger. The friends I had all died. I always have to be careful and look behind me to make sure the Thalmor isn't right behind me. Now we're here, but NOW WHAT! The only thing I had to cope was just being harsh and angry all the time and use my aggression to kill dragons and then some more.

I just don't know what to do anymore. What use is rebuilding the Blades without a purpose? There is no Emperor. The Empire is dead, the puppet of the Thalmor.

What use is it, without a exemplary leader? I'm not sure whether I can still do this."

Also, I'm not sure about if she is official the Grand-Master of the Blades. Since they are the only two Blades members left, I think everything is done by negotiation. Just some details giving us more options and more to consider.

 

@Draco: Your right. Alduin's Wall was at SHT already before the registration of history. Those traps and restricted access would probably already be there, since at that time, there were more Dragonborns alive and they were the only one to get access to the Temple.

[Logiwink]

Tsaesci are cool but most likely outside the scope of this mod - if someone manages to prototype a Tsaesci race we could put a statue of it in SHT, that would be cool. For one, Tsaesci exterminated dragons in Akivir so the most likely wouldn't get on with them in Skyrim.

 

AoC- Thanks for the voice acting offer. What sort of voices can you do?

 

Draco - I think the consensus is that you'll be able to kill paarthurnax and do dragon kill missions or let him live and do dragon ally missions. Of course nothing is fixed in stone.

 

Smith-stuff: I think the best way to go about it would be to pick one story line for each NPC so that we can flesh it out properly. I'd rather have only one choice for the smith and have him feel like a real character than have three different one-dimensional smith NPCs. As the mod progresses we can always add features in the future and if there comes a point when I can't give the mod proper attention I'll hand it off to the person who can, who can then add his/her own spin.

[Draco856]

I hope weather Paarthurnax lives or dies isn't a requirement for Dragon Ally quests because you still have Odahviing, now if there was a way to kill off both of them it'd be better for Dragon kill quests as there would no longer be able more friendly dragons, the Call Dragon shout would have to be disabled for those who do go "dragon extermination", because it wouldn't really make sense to destroy all the dragons only to have this one single dragon left over who can't be killed.

 

Though I still hold out hope that someone will make a mod where the choice can be changed if you did kill him, maybe bring him back as a spectral dragon, it's not bringing him back to life really, it's just summoning a ghost.