JibstaMan Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I took the liberty to steal some more lore from the game. Copyrighted of course by Bethesda! I've typed out the beginning of the Paarthurnax quest, see spoiler!-- Warning, spoiler is indeed a spoiler and contains complete conversations copied from the game --- Reveal hidden contents Delphine: "There is one more thing. We know about Paarthurnax."- You know... what? - "Paarthurnax. The dragon, that the Greybeards have been protecting for all these years. <go to continue> - Turns out he's a dragon. But he helped me. - "That's fine. We needed his help. Now we don't, and it's long past time to pay for his crimes. And he's not just any dragon. He was the right hand of Alduin. He committed atrocities so infamous they are still remembered, thousands of years later. <go to continue><Continue> He needs to die. He deserves to die. And it falls to you to kill him. Until he's dead... well, I'm sorry, but we would dishonor our oaths as Blades if we continue to help you. - What do you have against the Greybeards? - "If they had their way, you'd do nothing but sit up on their mountain with them and talk to the sky, or whatever it is they do. The Greybeards are so afraid of power that they won't use it. Think about it. Have they tried to stop the civil war, or done anything about Alduin? No. And they're afraid of you, of your power. Trust me, there's no need to be afraid. Think of Tiber Septim. Do you think he'd have founded the Empire if he'd listened to the Greybeards?" - About Paarthurnax ... - "Make your choice, Dragonborn. You're either with us or against us. - Why does he need to die? - "Here's the big picture. He helped Alduin enslave our ancestors. He may have betrayed Alduin in the end, but that makes him worse, not better. We can't afford to give Paarthurnax the opportunity to betray us in turn, and return to his old master." - What's so important about me being Dragonborn? - "The Blades have always guarded and guided the Dragonborn. But we'd forgotten why. Now our purpose is clear. I'm all that's left of the Blades, and you're the Dragonborn. Together we're going to stop these dragons, if we have to put every last one of them back in the ground." - Who are the Thalmor? - "The faction that rules the Aldmeri Dominion. The ones who almost destroyed the Empire during the Great War, thirty years back. There's no worse enemy to humankind in Tamriel. The Empire barely survived the last war. The Thalmor don't intend to lose the next one." - So why are they hunting you? - "When I was young, our leaders became obsessed with the Thalmor threat. They believed that if and when we found a Dragonborn, we would need to protect her against the Thalmor. Turns out, we fatally underestimated the Thalmor. They smashed us with ease during the Great War. I was one of the few who escaped. For a long time, all I cared about was staying alive, and taking revenge on the Thalmor when I could. But then the dragons returned. And I remembered that the Blades used to be dragonslayers. And that we were sworn to protect the Dragonborn, the greatest dragonslayer of all. Talking with Arngeir:- The Blades want me to kill Paarthurnax. - "Now you see why I've warned you against them! Bloodthirsty barbarians! - Is it true what they said? Was he Alduin's ally? - "Yes. But understand - during the days of Alduin's rule, all dragons were his allies. There was nothing else they could be. If not for Paarthurnax, Alduin could not have been overthrown. It was he that first taught men to use the Thu'um. Edited December 12, 2011 by JibstaMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drytor Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 "We needed his help. Now we don't." Convince Delphine that we still need his help! It's so obvious, especially with the added threat of the Thalmor. Can anyone actually find the oath that the Blades used to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AphoticPhoenix Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I don't know about anyone else, but one of the things that really bothers me about the Blades quest line, and trying to mesh any extension of such with existing lore is: it just highlights how thick the retcon was slathered on. Is there, in any other previous game, any mention anywhere of dragons enslaving mortals? If I'm wrong, I'd love it for someone to fill me in... Is the demand for Parthurnaxxs death some sort of displaced rage against the Thalmor? Otherwise, it's kinda impressive to hold such a MASSIVE grudge for something that had to have happened so very long ago that the majority of the continent forgot, and in lieu of events that played out prior... Nope, sorry, just feels like a cheap ploy to tug at the players feelings of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drytor Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The Tsaesci fought with daikatana blades, and wore dragonscale armor. The Tsaesci army gear became the source of most of the traditional dress and banners of the Blades. The Tsaesci also apparently had tamed, and perhaps even rode, the Akaviri dragons in battle. The red dragon was eventually adopted as the main symbol of the Imperial Septim Dynasty. Of particular note is the fact that Reman I was the Emperor who instituted the tradition of lighting the dragonfires, and Reman was ruling Cyrodiil at the time of the Tsaesci invasion. How's that for a piece of lost history you could hit Delphine with! http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tsaesci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohdi Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) On 12/13/2011 at 12:16 AM, Drytor said: The Tsaesci fought with daikatana blades, and wore dragonscale armor. The Tsaesci army gear became the source of most of the traditional dress and banners of the Blades. The Tsaesci also apparently had tamed, and perhaps even rode, the Akaviri dragons in battle. The red dragon was eventually adopted as the main symbol of the Imperial Septim Dynasty. Of particular note is the fact that Reman I was the Emperor who instituted the tradition of lighting the dragonfires, and Reman was ruling Cyrodiil at the time of the Tsaesci invasion. How's that for a piece of lost history you could hit Delphine with! http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tsaesci As for this, I don't think that the first-era dragonslayers were actually Tsaesci, the snakemen of Akavir. Remember the questline from Oblivion when Countess Carvain of Bruma asks you to retrieve the Draconian Madstone from Pale Pass (coincidentally, where the player begins the Skyrim game), and you find out that the invaders were not Tsaesci, but the long-gone Men of Akavir. This would make a bit more sense in terms of armor design at least, though I believe it is recorded elsewhere (as in, elsewhere in history) that the Tsaesci used katanas and such as their weapons. Along this line, a while ago I made a point to read the 2920 series of books (actually very well written), and I remember a passage when the Tsaesci potentate is discussing a gladiator battle with the emperor, and notes that his people have no use for heavy armor or shields, because it is best to not get hit at all. Not sure how much this relates to the Blades, but an interesting bit of lore to say the least. EDIT - I just read through the article linked above, and it sounds like there may be some indecision on whether the Tsaesci were actually shaped like snakes, or human-shaped and scaled perhaps like an Argonian, or even just a crafty race of men. I'll keep reading, the answer to this could be important later. ANOTHER EDIT - It is an interesting note that the Akaviri invaders, whatever their race, wore dragonscale armor, which has its style echoed in the modern Blades gear. In the fourth era, for the first time in thousands of years, we have access to actual dragon scales (and bones) once again, so this might be able to tie in interestingly with the "grandmaster" armor set. Perhaps new armor is smithed in the Akaviri style, or pieces of ancient armor are recovered and need dragon parts to be put back together, the possibilities are exciting. As for Delphine, she's sounding more and more like she just wants to use the dragons as a scapegoat for her (justified) frustration at the Thalmor. In all reality the dragons no longer pose a great threat, at least not like they did in the first era, so convincing her against the Paarthurnax vendetta will require digging deeper into her personal issues and background. One more point, and that is we need to have a plan for Esbern as well. He didn't really play a huge role in the questline, but as I recall he was an obsessive student of Blades lore in Cloud Ruler Temple. He may be able to serve as our archivist or librarian or whatever his title will be, and it might even be him that keys the player in to a secret locked vault of potential goodies within Sky Haven. He's a very quiet person, perhaps feeling distant from the world as a result of his studies, his hardships, and even his age, and it seems like he's willing to let Delphine make the big decisions, but I think he can be an asset to the reconstruction. Edited December 13, 2011 by Kohdi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco856 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I like Paarthurnax, I do, but if it came down to the choice of the Dragonborn leading the Dragons or Paarthurnax, I'd have to honestly say I'd still kill him just so the others aren't subjugated completely to the Way of the Voice. It's a good path and all, but I view it as a path of doing nothing in the face of great dangers, but that's just my feelings on the matter. If there was a way around it and Paarthurnax didn't try and teach the other Dragons the way of the voice and instead simply did by example, it might have been better. But I'm getting distracted by my personal feelings on the issue, he might have deserved to live, he might have deserved to die, but I doubt we can ever truly know his true intentions. After all, for all we know, his Way of the Voice could be a front and after the dragons are under his rule, he'll become the next Alduin and attempt to subjugate the races again, starting the Dragon War all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AphoticPhoenix Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 On 12/13/2011 at 1:00 AM, Draco856 said: After all, for all we know, his Way of the Voice could be a front and after the dragons are under his rule, he'll become the next Alduin and attempt to subjugate the races again, starting the Dragon War all over again. One could also argue that such hubris laden statements would be characteristic of an "immortal" being that has practically lived in seclusion since his glory days. Considering how well dragons fared after Alduin disappeared, e.g. becoming almost extinct; it seems unlikely that they would succeed again in enslaving the world. This isn't to say that some might not try, but it was already established that Alduin was significantly more difficult to remove from the mortal plane than other dragons, even (for some reason) his younger brother Paarthurnax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco856 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 True, it might not work, but I think and I might be wrong because I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of the lore surrounding Alduin and the Dragons, but I think I read somewhere, either in the game, or on the wiki about something that Alduin said. It was like for ever soul I take from the mortal races, an immortal dragon is put in it's place or something to that effect. So if I'm not wrong here, if Paarthurnax has that same ability, what's stopping him from doing what Alduin has done and go to Sovengarde to take the souls of those who haven't yet passed Shors test for entrance into the Hall of Valor? The portal is still open, the staff was left in it's place when you entered, and with no way to go back, we couldn't close it, so whats stopping a dragon, any dragon from becoming the next Alduin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lekill Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 +1 to this just devote some time to finding the best voice actors possible, that ruined many oblivion questline mods. Maybe you could get the real actors to do a few lines for free on the phone lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohdi Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 On 12/13/2011 at 6:06 AM, Draco856 said: The portal is still open, the staff was left in it's place when you entered, and with no way to go back, we couldn't close it, so whats stopping a dragon, any dragon from becoming the next Alduin? A very interesting point there, a quest in which Ohdaviing is used as a mount again to retrieve that staff and either lock it away or destroy it would have direct significance to the Blade's mission of keeping dragons at bay. If that portal were closed it would be a huge measure of safety to prevent, as you describe, a successor to Alduin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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