LE Improving the Blades

[Kohdi]

I'm glad the Oath was received well, I can make any revisions as necessary. As it is it might be too long for the game, but I feel like the games always sell their own lore too short.

 

JibstaMan, that conversation sounds really good. I think you got the attitudes of Delphine and Esbern spot-on, especially when it came to convincing them one way or another. I think near the end when Esbern recommends Delphine takes a bit of time off, she might be hesitant at first, or reluctant to just step down for a while. It may be helpful to give her something to do in her downtime, though what that would be I'm not sure. She's a very driven person, I just think that getting her to calm down and think for a bit might take a bit more convincing.

[Draco856]

We could put her in charge of finances. She did run an Inn for all these years after all. So she's had to manage her money well, to keep from drawing too much attention to herself.

 

 

I've also found another Blade (or former blade depending on how you look at it). He's a resident at the Nightgate Inn. It's a location used in a Dark Brotherhood quest, but it's somewhere around Snow Veil Sanctum, it's hard to give directions to this place without the map, so I hope someone can do better. Anyway, when attempting to pick this guys pocket I noticed the Blades Sword he had equipped, so I assume he's a Blade in hiding that hasn't been found by the Thalmor, or a mean trick by Bethesda...either way, if this guy is a Blade (or we could simply write a backstory for him, give him a bit of a friendship/relationship with Delphine it could tie in nicely. As far as I know, he's not used in any quests, so it might be a blank slate, if he is used in a quest, simply nix this idea.

[JibstaMan]

Well. It might just be the solution to something I found unrealistic; Delphine who tells us about a lot of rumors and possible recruits. Her job would be to gather info and find suitable recruits for the jobs that need to be filled in order to make the Blades a self-sufficient faction.

 

I'll take a look on whether I can make her little more resistant at first. But I fear I'm a little drawn towards giving Esbern all the convincing in that conversation...

 

Thanks for the positive feedback and the criticism.

 

EDIT: Updated the document with a new ending using Kodhi's feedback and filled the space in between.

Edited December 16, 2011 by JibstaMan

[Draco856]

I've left some comments on the document, I don't know if they will show up, it's pretty much all simple changes to the wording of some things, they were the only errors I could find when reading through it.

 

It does seem she gave up a little easily, but we have to remember, what she puts out, might not be how she really feels. She might be glad that they have a new purpose, she just might not be able to show it.

[JibstaMan]

Thanks for the feedback, changed all to what you suggested.

 

I've also found an error in the script.

I believe the purpose for which the Blades have been founded has been accomplished by this (wo)man here at this very table!

This is only true when Alduin has been defeated. So, this should change or this conversation can only take place after you killed Alduin (which is not how I saw it when writing it).

 

Here is why I think the quest is made quite realistic:

 

As I see it, Delphine's anger towards the dragons is not something personal. As a Blade, she thinks it's her duty to fight dragons as the Blades did some many years ago. As a Blade, she knows and is enraged by the atrocities of Paarthurnax and can't look past that to see he is still useful and somewhat changed his way - would you trust him.

There is the question on how they've come to know Paarthurnax was a dragon and specifically the right hand of Alduin, the second born, the dragon behind so many atrocities.

That they figured out he was a dragon is explained in the game. But didn't they know before the negotiation between the Empire and the Stormcloaks? Didn't they know his name, "Paarthurnax" and knew from the very first time they heard the name of the leader of the Greybeards that it was the dragon of old, the one behind atrocities and other bad things...

If they did know (which we might fill in as it is our modding freedom), that proves her anger was NOT so big he should die before he helped us. Although, maybe he was necessary in stopping the end of the world, which was the motivation behind not killing him immediately.

Paarthurnax is at the Throat of the World and can't be touched by any mortal without using the Voice. Tdhere isn't much the Blaes can do themselves, so it's up to you. And that's the end of their anger towards that specific dragon.

How I made the quest, Paarthurnax isn't the deciding factor on whether the Blades change their way. So the discussion of whether it is realistic isn't centered on the hatred towards him, but to the dragons in general and (maybe) that compared to the hatred towards the Thalmor.

Killing the other dragons, exterminating them, is a way of protecting civilization. It's not necessarily hatred. They protect the villages and cities against those creatures. It was bad enough without the dragons and they are a big threat. But once the Dragonborn proves they can be useful, why not shift a little. Delphine will need to stop being short-minded in order to allow this.

But with her past and all the Thalmor have done and are doing, it's totally understandable she hates them more then the dragons. Killing hostile dragons, using submissive (or however you would put it) dragons and just... EXTERMINATE the Thalmor is something that sounds more like the right way to feel better, instead of leaving the Thalmor alone and kill all dragons, while meantime the civil war continues, the Thalmor corrupt, always looking for Blade members, keeping the Empire under their control.

Speaking of motivation, Delphine personally has more motivation towards fighting Thalmor then fighting dragons. If she would only allow emotions and stop the formal, rational way she's lived her life up till now, she wouldn't be all that hard to convince. She just need to think about herself for a moment, instead of blindly following what she thinks is what the Blades would do.

That is at least what I think about that, for those wondering. Better concentrate on improving the quest script, rather then changing my view on things, ey?

 

[Draco856]

Views change all the time. It's how we go about that change that really matters. When the Dragonguard was created, we have to remember, it was created by the Tsaesci, the Vampiric Serpents of Akavir, who wanted nothing more then to enslave or kill all dragons. Maybe putting that into perspective would be good. That the Blades as a whole, were a faction that hated dragons, just because they were there, now don't hate me for this, but it's the same with the Thalmor, they hate the other races for simply existing, it has nothing more to do with anything but a blind hate, much like Delphine when it comes to Dragons. The Blades were a faction founded on blind hate of a race they could not, would not understand.

 

 

As for this line, it could be changed to suit when we go this route:

 

 

I believe the purpose for which the Blades have been founded will be accomplished by this (wo)man here at this very table, but until that time has come we must do our sworn duty as Blades. (Before Alduin's defeat)

 

[Logiwink]

Guys, sorry for the absence (I was sick for a couple days). I love the work you guys have been doing. Especially Jibstaman's Riddlemaster quests and the Oath by Kohdi. When you guys get a chance please post some of the working documents on the Sourceforge forums. Will be back when time permits!

[Aokami]

Thank you for killing me with 26 pages to read... but also the awesomeness you are building...

 

1) Changing the blades (Paarthurnax - allying or slaying dragons)

2) SHT (Creating the HQ)

3) War

 

1)

There is one thing that is bothering me... My character is Highborn (E.L.D. Auriel)... but i am going against the aldmeri dominion... still as a highborn you should get an additional quest (testing) to gain the trust by bringing either some treasured and important artifact of the altmer, which is currently being carried by a caravan from solitude to cyrodiil or twenty heads of thalmor (and of course i can give him both if i did both)

 

2)

The best way to stay hidden is minimal exposure so an outpost of an unnamed noble (thane (you)) is the best way to keep the blades headquarters hidden... so making karthspire a small farm, fishing, merchant outpost is the best option to deal with the issue

 

The SHT should not have too many things packed into it. it is the headquarter of the blades, but when they expand, they wont stay only there...

but a cave on top of the mountain where Odahviing can land and sleep and which you can get to by stairs (either inside (like towerstairs) or outside) is an epic feature

 

The bringing paarthurnax back should make him an etherreal dragon not a living dragon by his own choice and your summon (force-spirit-life or something)...

 

You could train and outfit the blades similar to assassines creed brotherhood, where you send them on missions (textbased) in other countries, they level in rank and you can buy them equipment, weapons and armor

 

I suggest for the dragonborn the blade title of tiara (female) or crown (male) to have as much power as the grandmaster of the blades, which the T/C can nominate from among one of the master ranks (Delphine will already a grandmaster and would be the best choice to be one again but you may find another masterveteran).

 

3) this is a game expansion and much bigger than the previous 2

Okay this is so awesome that i want you to consider this...

 

The blades become a faction of their own in the war of ulfric or his successor (stromcloaks) and the empire (under thalmor thumb)... at first your blades will be hidden and you will rebuild in secret (with the sht as headquarters)... but once you have rebuild 'sungard' and made it a fort again the empire and stormcloaks will become aware of this new possible enemy (blades/dragonborn) in the west... and will start attacking you... your second fort will be 'broken tower redoubt' (which will gain two towers on the opposing side of the road and a wall with two gates)... while sht and karthspire become the support of these two fortresses (money and food)

and they will attack you from one of those two directions...

 

every time you rebuild a fort or tower and 'equip' it with guards your political influence in the region around it rises as well as there will be guard patrols making the lands safer against bandits aso...

but your enemies will send stronger forces...

 

The player will be able to have two maps one, which is magical in form of an orb and shows the lands like the vanilla map... but with other functions like showing resources or political mode (where you see lands (in colors) surrounding forts, towers aso showing which faction has claimed the tower for themselves... Yellow/gold for you and the blades; Red for the empire; Blue for stormcloaks; Grey/white for bandits/thieves/abandoned) [can be bought in the college of mages]

and the plain map where you write with a magical quill what you found...

and in your fortresses you will also see the strategic maps with the flags for forts and legions (with dots to see the aim where they are going)

Defenses can be held by your own forces (without you) but will afterwards need higher funding to heal and rebuild... which the grandmaster will do automatic if you have enough gold in sht treasury...

 

Also if you made the guildquests you will be able to gain help (thieves detailed intel in all of skyrim, companions will fight against small enemy camps which will slow the enemies approach, mages will either cast small defenseshield on fortresses making them hold out longer or create a few turrets with soulstones (for healing or attack) at special places)

[AndyMg]

Hi guys.

Would it be possible to keep updating the first post (or somewhere) with the latest mod plans? I've been reading through the thread so far and several ideas keep coming and going & I'm unsure exactly what ideas are seriously being considered.

 

If there is a single location where the latest ideas are kept & updated please point me to it.

 

 

I had planned doing a mod of this nature myself when the CK is released & have been making a list of possibilities which I'm sure could easily be incorporated here.

 

Cheers.

[Alex4921]

Assuming even half of the ideas in this thread are implemented this will be very very good.

Also i agree with updating the OP however sifting through 25 pages to put all the ideas on the OP is not an enviable task.