LE Improving the Blades

[Awrethien]

Have to agree a summery should be added. Just read all 26 pages and it looks like an awsome plan. Would like to helpout as well if I can. Ive got experiance working with the construction kits from Morrowind to FONV. Never released anything I have done myself as I normly just make compatabiliy patches between other mods or fix personal pet peeves.. Later on I could do voice but right now Im deployed with military in Afghan.

[JibstaMan]

I've created an unofficial document to answer to your requests. I can't change the first post, otherwise I would have.

[AndyMg]

Ok then thats good.

 

After reading through the thread a lot of the ideas I had have already been put forward & discussed. However I'll just dump the text file section I have that is relevant to this thread & you guys can have a look.

 

 

Note: Blades must remain underground & work like an intelligence agency to avoid clashes with the thalmor. This will avoid any plot holes etc as otherwise the thalmor would eventually send an army into the area.

 

Rename blades sword to "Akaviri Katana". Add dai-katanas. Similarly rename armor items.

 

Fill ceiling holes & remove wind noises (perhaps as part of a series of upgrades). Add torch sconces & more fire pedestals. The holes would probably need camouflaged & roofed over from outside.

 

After main quest is over, Esbern & Delphine should have a persuasion option added to convince them that Paarthurnax should live. This should essentially bypass the Paarthurnax quest and have them act normally again.

Reasoning - Dragonborn should have a lot of influence with Esbern & Delphine. Alduin, an enormous threat to all of tamriel, has been defeated. Paarthurnax aided with this (significantly). paarthurnax is attempting to expand the way of the voice

to other dragons. Player reunited the last 2 blades, led them to Sky Haven temple & brought in more recruits. Player has been actively defending Skyrim against dragons. It makes no sense the blades would not support this. Perhaps a

"You're predjudice is getting in the way of our goals" type of persuasion option.

 

Add more possible blade recruits. Make sure each blade excluding Esbern can be a follower.

 

Add an Akaviri bow? Seems odd they have thier own weapons & armor except for a bow.

 

New sleeping area, which should be a lot more organised with plenty of beds and chests. Convert existing area into a large kitchen / dining room. Hot swap beds with on / off duty blades? Main hall should probably seat the high ranks at that big table.

 

Edit follower code to enable a small party of followers.

 

Add Sky Haven Temple to list of possible homes for spouse so that a married npc who has been inducted into the blades can return there.

 

Add a full smith which can forge blades equipment. Recruit a smithing character. This forge should have bonuses for blades items. Smith should work for free for blades since he will be a member. Some kind of akaviri blacksmith outfit?

 

Add a blades mages area with enchanter that has dragon damage bonus for enchanting etc.

 

Spell to summon Paarthurnax. Identical workings to Odahviing scripts, he should travel from the throat of the world.

 

Look into feasability of a large cave for Odahviing in the side of the mountain (or a nearby mountain), also accessible by new lower temple areas or by a long corridor if it is further away. This may require a couple of blades to attend to him. It seems ridiculous he keeps circling the throat of the world without landing. Cave should be deep to avoid it being too obvious from the road what is in it. Are there other options?

Cave would need to be as concealed as possible. Sky haven mountain looks too small especially when considering new temple floors. A better option may be a completely new area. A large mointain with an opening big enough for a dragon, but with a large, possibly eventually underground area with enough space for several dragons (where / how did dragons live when the were prolific under Alduin?). Blades could establish an outpost for this.

Paarthurnax could visit to give him some "life" instead of him sitting about. Offshore island? Ideally the entrance should be covered with a waterfall(s) for best cover as a height cover is probalby unrealistic. Possibility for nice eye candy if a dragon enters / leaves.

Concepts:

http://www.scenicreflections.com/files/Project_Offset:Dragon_Cave_Wallpaper_crqu.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/012/a/8/dragon_jaws_cave_by_VityaR83.jpg

 

Seems logical the blades should be sympathetic to the empire, understanding they are currently abolished to keep the peace. However it would be difficult to integrate any empire quests without a Thalmor war mod which is out of scope.

General Tullius mini-quest to get military supplies to sky haven to boost sky haven restoration in return for sharing thalmor intel? Legion couriers could visit sky haven for & with intel. Bear in mind the empire has no love of the thalmor.

Something small scale like this would also work with the stormcloaks if the player chooses that side, as there is logic to opening a dialogue between them & blades due to thier common thalmor enemy & talos beliefs.

Either way this should be kept small scale, limited to conversation implications & intel sharing quests.

 

Add a door identical to the exterior doors. This should load a new lower level. Stairs, then the rooms should be directly under the existing area (possibly several floors). This area should contain an extensive full armory with mannequins to store armor & usable weapon racks, display cabinets etc. Perhaps a hidden trophy room with named display cabinet for DragonBane etc. Remove unusable existing racks upstairs. Add a barracks & library area.

Library should have cupboards like College, with one as a hidden door & back panel leading to trophy room.

 

Create weapons such as "Baurus' Akaviri Katana" "Jauffre's Akaviri Katana", "Mishaxhi's Cleaver" (Dai-katana - Disintegrate armor 80pts), "Northwind" (Frost dmg 20pts) etc. as relics to be found in the trophy room in named display cases.

Other possibilities: Armor of Tiber Septim, mankar camerons robe & staff, Sancre Tor key, Commentaries books, old style mythic dawn robes, Martin's grey robes, Imperial Dragon armor, Kvatch items. Books of blades related quests from previous

games. Perhaps some could be retrievable in mini-quests. Or all / most in trophy room as per journal draft below. Should be references to champion of cyrodiil adding to thier collection.

Try & make items from oblivion look like thier oblivion counterparts. Seems feasable as the blades outfits in skyrim may be newer or perhaps the blades in skryim had slightly different items anyway, with the cold affecting thier armor designs

or local forging materials. Back story in the form of journals in the trophy room for how these artifacts arrived there & why they remained undiscovered by Thalmor. Adds depth & back story to mod.

 

Look at making conversation topics with Odahviing / Paarthurnax. This could possibly relate to thalmor activities. This would require recording a new voice actor for existing dialogue. This may become a large issue in general.

 

Dragon slaying mini-quests. Odahviing / Paarthurnax / scouts etc can report sightings, or perhaps more ambitious new areas where Alduin die hards are regrouping. This may involve multiple dragon encounters with groups of blades.

 

Perhaps, in the vein of the relevant thieves guild missions, sleeper blades in towns can be recruited to provide a safehouse in the area (perhaps a hidden basement area in the relevant NPCs house) & they should provide intel etc back to sky haven. Disguised blades couriers could be set up to run between cities & sky haven, perhaps informing the player of thalmor justiciar & assassin locations. Maybe triggering mini-quests. Provide provisions like weynon priory was implied to have done. Add variation, so Whiterun may be warmaidens, Windhelm maybe candlehearth hall etc. Perhaps a member of the caravans could be a courier.

 

Undercover Blades ship in Solitude area. i.e. a ship operated by blades in the guise of traders with the east empire company. This could be a useful tool for making new areas outside of skyrim for quests. Think the bloated float in oblivion or the quest with Legate Rikke. Quests could involve journeying to a remote island to deal with thalmor or antagonistic dragon nests. Perhaps intercepting thalmor troop or supply ships etc. (wipe out the crew & set fire to the ship, retrieve intel or items) It'd be good if the ship could resemble a distinctly modified Katariah in some way but possibly unrealistic. It could act as a blades safe house. Could be a quest to gain the ship & crew. This could be the solitude version of sleepers. This could evolve significantly with trips to ports which could involve cities or even Akavir in the distant future. Possibly over reaching but bear in mind. Could maybe use other mods for destinations.

Possibly incorporate east empire company in some mini-quests. i.e. supplies, revenue, cover etc. Would provide passage & cover for blades travelling out of skyrim.

 

Blades missions - choose between set missions, send certain blades out, they should travel away, perhaps to the ship, & return after a set number of days. Could this be setup to improve thier skills? Think assassins creed.

 

Forgotten blades sanctuary / fort quest? Could cloud ruler ruins be viable without recreating cyrodiil, perhaps set within C.R.T. walls. Restoration unlikely due to visibility, but perhaps an area underneath could be created & the used by blades.

This may need to be done via discussions & sending out blades on missions for miners, supplies etc. i.e. the player not having to travel there.

 

Add Thalmor mini-quests. Justiciar hunting etc, sabotage or espionage missions to embassy (unlock the gate & make sure no diplomatic immunity quest items or triggers remain) or northwatch keep.

There is a thalmor HQ in solitude that seems empty.

 

Penitus Oculatus mini-quest for secret & deniable support, sharing of intel etc. This would be useful for learning about goings on in Cyrodiil. Maybe link to Tullis mini-quest.

 

After a certain number of recruits or mini-quests, Thalmor assassins should come after the player. Some possibly with notes indiacting they are from outside Skyrim (this would make sense especially if the embassy & keep have been cleared).

 

Having blades armor or a visible amulet of talos should turn Thalmor instantly aggressive. Wearing around towns should increase thalmor assassin chances. If worn to a safehouse it may get raided & be of no use.

 

Follower code needs changed to allow blades to use improved equipment, such as player forged legendary blades armor. It'd be good if any armor lying around can be safely replaced with upgraded versions without it resetting. Same with weapons. Any equipment that should be in the armory will likely have to be forged by the new smith or the player. Mini-quests to get materials?

 

Guard duties & patrol routes around sky haven & karthspire need to be improved & added to. Guard shifts & timers.

 

Add a dog trainer? Possibly able to have a small pack of hunting dogs as followers.Are there useful advantages to this, will they be used to guard sky haven & sniff out thalmor agents?

 

Blades hunters, which basically could act as regular hunters for food but with scouting activities. They'd need to periodically return to sky haven. Perhaps if they randomly come across thalmor or dragons they could act like a courier.

Could incorporate the dogs as thier companions.

 

Add to library with new lore friendly books on dragons, blades history etc. Perhaps some blades armor & weapon texts, including forging articles. Akaviri texts. May be tedious but there could be book retrieval mini-quests like the college has.

 

Add more camouflage around exterior training ground, temple shouldn't be so clearly visible from the road to Markarth. Perhaps an overgrown wall of some kind behind the foliage. Bear in mind esbern has a seating area on some rocks.

Exterior area of sky haven should not be added to much as it would be easily seen by anyone on nearby hilltops. Convert this area to an obvious monastary type area. Could be for talos worship but should contain only shrines to the other 8 divines. Internal area for talos. Perhaps tie in with posible settlement & make this the cover for the whole temple. A few monks should be able to be recruited. Perhaps Esbern can join them & also be in charge of the library. Assuming a cover, how could the exterior be linked with the karthspire area if a thalmor group came looking? It seems a good cover would be necessary for them to operate without triggering a large-scale conflict. Especially seeing as the empire would be little help there. Exterior could be modified as an external 8 divines chapel with pews & altar. Reasonable to assume thalmor still have records of sky haven temple from the blades hunting, so the blades cannot afford to make it obvious

where they are. Yet.

Part of the exterior area could be for bow training in the elements. It would have to be concealed in some way. Perhaps blades could rotate who is out hunting as this could be classed as real world bow training instead. Interior traijing room,

then after a while they should progress to exterior bow traiing via hunting.

 

Blades should have an array of races in thier ranks. This would naturally be an advantage for intel gathering & missions in general. High elves - perhaps some extended recruitment process, maybe a thalmor intel gathering quest.

 

Could thalmor agents infiltrate sky haven in later stages? How would this work, will it require assassinating the agent before they can reach the embassy? Delivering false reports? Could the player have the option of being the traitor?

 

Exterior doors should be lockable, add some kind of keys to each blade & set them to lock & unlock the doors as required. Dragonborn & grand master quarters should have thier own keys.

 

The door with the face could be lowered if there was an attack. Other than the seal which needs reactivated, it could be opened from inside too. There is also a good bit of space around here for additions.

 

When blades travel out of sky haven, they should probably leave thier kit in the armory & change to civilian outfits. Perhaps there should be a second armory for this. Delphine should probably do this during the main quest using her own clothing on her person. Each blade should have a different civilian outfit. If on a group quest, could they have a similar outfit if appropriate? i.e. a group of monks. The player shouldn't be prevented from wearing the blades outfit outside, but maybe the other blades members should comment on it "you will attract the thalmor!" etc.

 

Player should be able to get free training here eventually.

 

Vault type area with chests or safes which should build up with funds / gems (perhaps filled chests should gradually appear) after mini-quests are completed. Player should be able to add to it.

 

There could be some kind of revenue generating dragon/thalmor bounty quests. Probably infinite radiant quests.

 

The blades will need a new grand master. There are valid reasons for this to be Delphine, Esbern or the player. If it is not the player, the player can get courier orders for mini-quests if they havn't been to sky haven for a while.

The player may be viewed as being more useful in the field than a grand master. The grand master may also be required to have some involvement in the order of talos? Perhaps this was just jauffre.

Esbern pros:

Experience?, sterotypical age, possibility of a jauffre type role with the order of talos, legitimate blades member, assistance to dragon born

Delphine Pros:

Experience, legitimate blades member, assistance to dragon born. Seems a bit angy & predjudice for GM.

Player pros:

Dragon born, blades are sworn to protect the player, demonstrated skills & abilities with the defeat of Alduin

Most likely Esbern or the player are the best candidates. Player should get a ceremony for official blades membership early on, then again if he / she / Esbern becomes grand master later on (bigger).

 

Mini-quest for forging ties to high hrothgar? Possibility of blades making trips there for studies. Thu'um books. Remember greybeards are contemplative isolationists so wouldn't go for a full on alliance.

 

Blades followers should be able to comment on quests, think Vilja from oblivion. This may be a very large undertaking for the later stages.

 

The Karthspire drawbridge needs to be functional for defense. Karthspire entrance needs some kind of defensible portcullis or something.

 

Karthspire drawbridge area - expand side tunnels to privide archer shooting slots with bow / arrow stores. Floor puzzle area can be reactivated. Blades members would need to be able to traverse it properly.

 

If dragon priests haven't been eradicated, there could be periodic intel on them.

 

Intel reports can be generated at the thalmor embassy. Embassy can probably do with some attention for mod. These could be retrieved for mini-quests.

 

Karthspire & exterior area should get cleared after there are a few recruits.

 

The karthspire ruins on the opposite river bank could be used for something. Although there is currently no interior, an under river tunnel could provide access to there. Maybe a hidden emergency escape route could be here somewhere.

The exterior of karthspire could have an inn added. Perhaps a small settlement could build up inside karthspire. Settlement should be for blades with families. Khajit traders could stop by to resupply.

Homes etc would need to be built into the rock faces. Scope for some houses etc under the drawbridge. The forsworn tents could be converted to places for the caravans. Try to integrate the caravans into the settlement more than other areas.

 

Blades NPCs need plenty of routines. There will be a lot of potential for guard patrols & day / night shifts, but there also needs to be smaller routines for off duty blades:

Trips to the smith / mages / talos temple. Any blades with families should visit with them in karthspire (& sleep in thier small abodes there). Trips to kitchen. Eating schedules.

Idle conversations when bumping into other off duty blades. Make sure there are no arrow-knee topics. Delphine's routine should possibly be less varied, focusing heavily on training new recruits. Same with Esbern but more because of his age.

Combat training with Delphine or alone. Learning / reading etc. with Esbern or alone. Esbern could become thought of as a source of valued wisdom among the blades. Should be able to travel to outer sky haven area with robes equipped.

 

Eventually it might be possible to drive the thalmor from skrim. If so the blades could become a bit more open about wearing thier items around sky haven.

 

Updates to sky haven or karthspire should probably occur in stages. If the player is away for a certain period of time a bit more gets done. Some visual interim cleanups & building works could be placed if the player comes back. If the player

is away the whole time they should just see the finished product. Is there a better way of making it semi-realistic?

[Aokami]

previous post

 

Everything seems fine to me except the dragonborn player becoming grandmaster of the blades...

The blades need direction and a constant eye watching over them as they watch over the dragonborn... which shouldnt be the dragonborn... S/he has a special position (outside/inside the blades)... Otherwise the feel is off somehow...

As the feel would be of if the player becomes grandmaster of several 'guilds'... (or even of a guild and doesnt stay there doing his work as grandmaster)

[darthmomis]

Wow that was a lot of reading. I'm very happy to see this is being done. I'm not a modder but I would still love to help. I am interested in doing the voice of Delphine if you need me. I'm not sure if my voice will suit. I was trained for phone and radio. I was born in Florida but lived in the South from age 16 so my accent maybe strange. I will make a demo of me acting some of the dialogue and e-mail it. You can let me know if you need me. I can also do voice for any other female NPC.

I can also proof read and do any time consuming tasks no one else has time for (or doesn't want to do). I have lots of free time.

I will be teaching myself how to use the CK but I probably won't be proficient enough in time to be much help there.

I really don't have anything to add to the ideas. Most of it has already been worked out. If anyone needs someone to throw ideas at to brain storm let me know.

This post is still a BUMP for this mod.

So I feel like I've done my part. Even if it is small.

[JibstaMan]

@darthmomis:

What you can do: go to our SourceForge project, join up, leave a message at the Welcome to the Team and read the conversation script and give feedback if you have any.

 

Some idea's I can add to the long list:

Intervene in Thalmor business.

A deal with Markath for a batch of local guards armor.

Edited December 19, 2011 by JibstaMan

[AndyMg]

Aokami:

I completely agree with you but the option for folk to do it would be nice, it'd make it feel more open & less linear. Same with a possible Thalmor double agent type thing. Something I'd never do but might be interesting for people that want rid of the blades. I remember several situations in Oblivion that were screaming out for a bit more player choice in this regard.

 

JibstaMan:

Would the Markarth armor be for exterior guards? That sounds good. If the monastery thought went forward it'd look like a Markarth temple to passers by. Possibly linked to the Dibella temple & opens up possibilities for travellers between the two locations & would add a nice new level to the blades cover. Assuming this is how the mod goes of course. Seems to make more sense to me than a normal community outside Karthspire which would be a bit too likely to spill the beans. A community of sorts could easily be set up inside Karthspire for blades & monks with families as I mentioned before. This would add depth to the area.

 

Another thought is that some potential recruits should be high level trainers to make it more feasible that a larger group of blades will get created & managed (particulalry if you go down the road of agents scattered about) instead of relying solely on Delphine. The creation of ranks & selection of captains would be required as well. Perhaps each high evel recruit could open up more slots for lesser recruits.

 

If the ship idea is used, recruits could be imported so the mod isn't all of a sudden creating NPCs in the world just for this or using up too many existing ones leaving empty houses etc in each town. I really think having a ship opens up a huge array of options.

 

I'm in a very similar boat to Awrethien experience wise. I've made a lot of bug fixes & compatability mods of my own in Oblivion as well as changing things that irritated me. The most advanced things I did with the last CS were completely rewriting the dialogue & triggers for the Aleswell zero visibility quest from scratch, for some reason Ancotar never had any options for me. Was like that from Oblivion day one. I've also created NPCs, guard patrols & routines, keys, editing other mods to my liking as well as the usual stat & inventory changes most folk dabble in. So nothing very major but if I'd be useful with the new CK I'd be up for helping out. I've modded a lot of games over the years & had a mod published in a german gaming magazine (must have been a slow week :)). My voice is barely fit for speaking though so I'd be unable to help there I think.

 

Sorry for the long posts, but hopefully they will be of some use.

Edited December 19, 2011 by AndyMg

[Draco856]

That was a very long post. I will admit, I didn't read it all, but what I did read seems very close to what we have been discussing all ready, somethings might need to be changed/worked around, but overall, good ideas.

[darthmomis]

I was reading over AndyMg's post again. This cought my eye.

Having blades armor or a visible amulet of talos should turn Thalmor instantly aggressive. Wearing around towns should increase thalmor assassin chances. If worn to a safehouse it may get raided & be of no use.

I know it's a little thing but it adds so much to the immersion of the mod. It also adds a surprise now and then if you forget to change your armor and wear something around the wrong people. I loved this little touch in Fallout NV.

[Kohdi]

I just wanted to pop in for a second and retouch a matter mentioned a while ago. A man carrying a Blades katana was found at the Nightgate Inn, and I just saw him and can confirm that fact. His name is Fultheim, he's apparently a drunk resident of the inn (troubled past, perhaps?), and he is not a part of the Dark Brotherhood events there. He could be a great way to use random resources left in the game for a mod like this, perhaps he could fill the role of the old veteran. Just some food for thought.