LE Improving the Blades

[Kairo29]

Hmmm...absorbing dragon souls and gaining their memories? Lol reminds me of Prototype. Sounds cool though. It'd be interesting to see how the dragonborn would go about learning how to re-institute a dragon's soul into the body. (Seeing the reverse animation of a dragon death to simulate dragon rebirth would be preeeetty cool I think).

 

From my understanding, it would make sense that The Blades' find priority in recovering artifacts and supporting the worship of Talos. That sounds like the first steps in getting the Nords to join the cause, right? Do you think you'd focus on only those 3 options? Is it important to have options that vary completely from one another so that there is no overlap? Because to me, it looks like I'd want to do 2 in order to hopefully bolster support and forces to do 1. Option 3 sounds like the rash action that could be looked at as protecting the people of Skyrim, or destroying a possibility of strong allies.

 

Imagine the look on the Thalmor's faces when an opposing force shows up at their doorstep with allied dragons in tow. Would be an interesting change from being the harbingers of

I'm of course for the idea of incorporating other nations in the questline in any way shape or form. Seeing quest objectives where the Blades are fed information by sympathizers and allies in towns that lead them to enemy hideouts or "enemy leaders". Personally, I'd like to see a classic interrogation where you have to beat the target up to squeeze more info out of them. Or have what we think is a trusted info source lead us into a trap (once we survive we have an option of how to deal with the traitor type thing).

 

But yeah I like the ideas presented so far.

[Logiwink]

Draco - The idea of absorbing souls to gain information/understanding is a cool one - but what exactly is it that we are trying to find out and what would that look like in-game? The idea of putting a soul back into a dragon sounds a little far-fetched until I realized that it's more or less what Alduin was doing throughout the game, resurrecting the dragons one by one. I'm not sure where one would learn the skill though, since I think Alduin may have been the only one who could. Possibly one could learn it from records made by past dragon born? Ultimately, there has to be a compelling plot reason to do this though, like one Dragon will join your cause but you need to bring back his mate or something.

 

Kairo - Your point about whether the questline options should be exclusive or non is a good one. I'm torn because I'd like the player to be choosing a set direction for the Blades and feel that they have chartered a distinct course culminating in some sort of ceremony to recognize the achievements of the player and the course for the future. However, I'd like most of the content to be available through a single playthough and not force 3 replays just to experience all the content. Perhaps there is a middle way in which you have the three paths to choose from but upon completion you could get access to a few missions from the others, or perhaps you should be able to finish one line then go and play through the second, then the third as you suggested.

 

Lot to think about - can't wait for the CS release! Will keep you guys in the loop.

[Draco856]

We could learn if this dragon is trustworthy, and worth going through the process of bring back to life, if a dragon isn't trustworthy, and we bring them back without knowing for sure, we invite destruction into our midst, and that's not something that would be good for the worlds view of the Blades. As for bringing them back, we give them back their life and soul, they join our cause, as simple as it sounds. They can either be used as fuel for learning our shouts, or given back their life to serve the Dragonborn if they are worthy of that immense amount of trust

 

As for learning how to resurrect dragons like Alduin, you forget that we watched him do it once before (or several times if you went to each dragon mound to observe) We can use books on the dragon language, or ask Odahviing/Paarthurnax (if he is still alive) what was said and then find some specific words and make our own shout that can be used to release the soul back into the body. It would look the same as when we take the soul, only reverse the process, instead of flesh burning away, it comes back, instead of the soul flowing into you, it flows out. The flesh coming back is in the game all ready, it's used when Alduin brings dragons back to life.

 

As for plot reasons, we need allies, if Odahviing and Paarthurnax (if we convince the Blades to spare him, or we bring him back) are our only allies, and one of them dies, what happens then? It will become a useful tool should one of our dragon allies ever fall in battle, the soul might still be there, but they will still need to be brought back. They're immortal, but can still die, it's just more or less permanent when you do it, but we can find a way to reverse the process.

 

The way I think we could go about finding/creating a way for a Dragonborn to bring a dragon back to life is we can return to Sovengarde, and ask those the first masters of the voice if there is a way to create a shout to bring a dragon back to life, we then go on a lengthy quest of learning the dragon language to find the correct words for the shout, which would be "Resurrection, Life, Health" or something like that, we might even have to go so far as to make our own words like they did when they made the Dragonrend shout. IT wouldn't just be a 1 quest and we can suddenly bring dragons back to life, no that wouldn't be good, and it'd be a little cheap as well, it should be a series of quests, like 5 or 6 that we have to go through.

 

2 quests - Tests of Shor, to gain unhindered access to Sovengarde through the use of a shout, we would have to use Alduins portal to return once more, then after we pass these tests we gain a new shout that would open a portal for the Dragonborn, and only the Dragonborn to enter.

 

the next 3 quests - Trials set forth by the first masters of the voice, to prepare our minds for the influx of their knowledge of the Dragon language

 

the final quest - We learn the dragon language, and can now make our own shouts, we find the words we need, words that Alduin himself used when we observed the first resurrection he did and make a shout out of it.

[NotCras]

Just a thought (ill be honest i didnt read everything on this thread), but in addition to the other choices, maybe if you dont agree with killing Paarthurnax, you could challenge Delphine for the leadership of the Blades. You are the Dragonborn so shouldnt you be the one leading the Blades anyway?

Plus, dont the GreyBeards transfer their knowledge of shouts to you, so I think it would be possible to transfer a soul to a dragon. at least thats what i think

[apostate9]

Just a thought (ill be honest i didnt read everything on this thread), but in addition to the other choices, maybe if you dont agree with killing Paarthurnax, you could challenge Delphine for the leadership of the Blades. You are the Dragonborn so shouldnt you be the one leading the Blades anyway?

Plus, dont the GreyBeards transfer their knowledge of shouts to you, so I think it would be possible to transfer a soul to a dragon. at least thats what i think

 

I am an experience modder, I'd like to work on this effort. I agree, SHT should be a viable base, and the player should be able to bully them into dealing with Paarthurnax. They serve the Dragonborn, not vice versa.

 

I would ditch "Edge of the Blades" though. Clever, but not really doing it for me, and it is non-canonical without a good reason. The Blades have a Grand-Master, I'd go with that.

[Zero713]

I strongly approve this mod. The blades in Skyrim seem to have been a rather rush job and is pretty weak. The blades has always been my favorite faction in the elder scroll games, and to see how they were depicted as dragon murderers and ONLY dragon murderers destroys the potential of the blades. I have no experience in actually editing elder scroll games, but I have knowledge in various aspects of game design from other engines, so anyway to lend a hand with something as awesome as this would be an honor.

[NotCras]

Just a thought, but maybe have a bunch of quests that improve SHT, or like when the Blades become a more dominant force, the SHT becomes better.

Plus, maybe we could also have undercover blades as well that you manage or something like that... or maybe recruit an "informant" in each city for the blades

[Logiwink]

NotCras - I'm sure that the idea of challenging Delphine for leadership is appealing and I know many people would want to play that.

 

Apostate9 - Glad the mod has caught your interest. I agree that dispensing with the Edge of the Blades title may be the best course - certainly it's most compatible with the Lore. I guess I was working for forward-compatibility with the Lore since the Dragonborn won't go done in ES history as a leader of the Blades - but it's probably not wroth worrying about forward-compatibility. As Notcras suggested challenging Delphine for leadership could be great. It would be a great 2-3 mission arc with the Dragonborn proving his martial prowess, his leadership, and intelligence. It could tie into the recruitment missions as well with those you recruited supporting either you or Delphine (think of something like the Landsmeet sequence from Dragon Age). I'm glad to have an experienced modder on board with the project and I'll keep you in the loop.

 

Zero - help is always appreciated. Right now I'm imagining a series of six recruitment missions in which the player goes and recruits new Blades members that expand the functionality of Sky Haven Temple. The goal is to make them something like the recruitment msisions from Mass Effect 2. Right now I'm imagining the people you could recruit as 1) The Smith (blades, armor, etc) 2) The lorekeeper (an apprentice for Esbern) 3) The Wizard (Enchanter) 4) The Sharpshooter (archery/fletchery) 5) The Veteran (hard-bitten military man to train recruits) 6) The Quartermaster (to manage general supplies and logistics). If you wanted to take one or two of these characters and write a sketch for their background, why they would consider joining the Blades, and what a quest to recruit them might look like that would be really cool.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Logiwink

[Draco856]

1. The Smith - Could be someone we found in the Reach either a member of the Forsworn who no longer agrees with current leadership. was a smith in Markarth before leaving to become Forsworn, and finding that they are just common bandits.

 

2. The Lorekeeper - Someone from the College of Winterhold, maybe expelled, or otherwise disliked because they try to get as much information from every source when people tend to only listen to a single source for their information on events.

 

3. The Wizard - Would have to be either a former member of the Mages Guild (which was disbanded), a former member of the College, or a current member of the College. If you have progress far enough, to become Archmage, you could just talk one of the members into becoming a Blade.

 

4. The Sharpshooter - Perhaps one of those hunters you meet randomly on the road, could have witnessed something the Thalmor were doing that they didn't want anyone to know about, and is now being hunted.

 

5. The Veteran - Perhaps a former General of the Legion, kicked out, or retired because he could no longer abide a puppet Empire

 

6. The Quartermaster - A merchant who used to sell to the Thalmor, but has fallen out of favor after refusing to smuggle Thalmor agents into the Imperial City, likely for subversion tactics

 

---

 

My own additions:

 

7. The Spy - A former Blade who has to be found somewhere in the world (there is a person like this in an out-of-the-way Inn all ready in the game, it's the Inn where you have to go during a Dark Brotherhood quest)

 

8. The Thief - Could be used to silently pilfer documents from Thalmor outposts outside the province, Used to learn of any plans they might have against the Blades and Sky Haven Temple.

[Chainsgore]

Heres a few things I was thinking about while reading through these posts.

 

During the quest -The Fallen- if you do the peace summit Delphine and Esbern sit with Ulfric's little group and he speaks to her as if they know eachother. Also the main driving force behind Ulfric's rebellion is the Thalmor ban on Talos worship. With that said I don't think it's far fetched for the Blades to side with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks since they are in essence the Order of Talos. This could be put in as a possible option for a later part of the -Reforging the Blades- idea. It might not be what everyone wants but I'm sure some people myself included would be interested in exploring this. Could lead to replacing of Stormcloak guards in certain places with Blades instead. Possibly a series of quests from Ulfric to learn the shout he used against the High King (If you don't assume it was Unrelenting Force), or maybe a Buff that increases shout strength by a percentage (If you do). Could help out with resources for the Blades such as Improved Facilities, Recruits, Extra Money at Merchants from Trading, more items for sale.

 

So at some point in the questline get the option to speak with Ulfric Stormcloak,

1: About either supporting the reforming of the Blades.

2: Or about integrating the Blades into the Stormcloaks.

**Depending on persuassion**

 

Then regardless of which path is taken you are given a series of quests given by Ulfric and Delphine setting you against either the Imperials or the Thalmor gaining the Blades increased favor with the Stormcloaks either as a formidable ally or elite units. As members within the Stormcloaks at the end you could have the Palace of the Kings guards replaced with Guards wearing Blades gear. As allies instead along with whatever aid the Stormcloaks give to the blades along the way as thier favor increases could be additional guards for Skyhaven Temple or perhaps additional recruit inside training. Depending on which path is taken you could learn a different buff from Ulfric.

**Could slide in possible recruits during missions either elective followers offered by Ulfric that can be recruited upon completion of certain missions or found throughout the course of a mission or series of missions**

 

Or you could after speaking with him decide to go independant initiating a similar set of quests focused more directly on the Thalmor (possibly even some of the same quests you would have recieved from Delphine had you taken one of the other paths). Where you strengthen the Blades by making contacts during these quests.

**Instead of recieving a buff from Ulfric you could get it from perhaps Delphine or Esbern if it won;t conflict with him also giving you the Dragonslayer buff**

 

Also to retouch on the Paarthunaxx conclusion. After having decided whether or not to kill him or have the Blades do it or not is it doable to have something worked out either with Esbern, Delphine or Arngeir. As in if you kill Paathunaxx at their request perhaps you can get his head mounted somewhere in the temple or something to that effect. Maybe even have Delphine give you the names of some NPC's to recruit for going this path. If you choose not to and persuade them to still be friends with you perhaps convince them to learn from Paarthunaxx's teachings by having Arngeir come to the temple to give council as the order rebuilds possibly suggesting certain NPC's for possible recruitment. Or a mix depending on which choices were made leading up to either and alliance with the Greybeards or them continuing to be opposed to the Blades.

 

So you either,

1: Kill Paarthunaxx.

2: Don't and don't let them either.

2: Don't and have the Blades do it.

 

At which point you would have to,

1: Try and convince the Greybeards it "Had to be Done"

2: Convince the Blades of the Error of thier ways.

3: Side with either the Blades or Greybeards on the death of Paarthunaxx and either make the Blades see the error of thier ways or convince the Greybeards it was for the Greater good. (Could be done like the peace summit)

**Failure to resolve the issue leads to ongoing hostilities between the Blades and the Greybeards** (Possible increase in dragon spawning, or possibility for increased number of dragons attacking at once.)

 

Also a suggestion for the #7 or #8: The Spy/Thief - Rune from the Thieves Guild. Possible Former Blade suffering from Amnesia as fits with his story or convince him that joining the Blades might help him figure out what the symbols on his Rune mean. Either way easy opening through conversation involving the Rune.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Chainsgore