So what I think may have happened to the Dwemer

[SaintAnon]

The evil Daedra whom could have done it are so self absorbed that we would have heard about it if it was them, Molag Bal would constantly be touting how he crushed a entire race of advanced Mer, Peryite would be going on and on about the Plague he used, and Sheogorath would be wearing a Dwarves head like a Hat.

 

On this note though has anyone ever figured out why "The Spellbreaker" a extremely powerful Dwemer artifact is so connected with the Daedric Prince Peryite?

 

And as to the theory of the Dwemer being in there machines, the soul gems are simply used as heating elements to power their boilers. Plus I think the Dwemer would have bigger aspirations then to trap themselves inside worker drones content with dwelling in there ancient ruins just guarding the place for eternity.

Edited January 6, 2012 by SaintAnon

[eltucu]

First, pretty bad idea to think that it could have been cuz they were tampering with an elder scroll. It has been stated over and over that they disappeard the moment when Kagrenac used the tools on the Heart of Lorkhan. No Elder Scroll in the middle.

 

Besides, i think they're already proven their mastery of the Elder Scrolls with designing a machine capable of reading it (so no Dwarven would have to read it himself and get blinded in the process).

 

Second, the Quest of the Winterhold College gives a hind of what could have happened to them (i almost covered my face literally when the dude was hiting the gem with Keening lol i was thinking "Its going to explode, we're all going to die! " )

 

The guy that i dun remember his name (let me check in the uesp), Arniel, dissappears. Whle in his own words, the experiment isnt 100% accurate since a. He doesnt has the Heart of Lorkhan. b. He doesnt knows much about what he has to do or how it works. c. He lacks the other tools

 

So, if we assume that what happened to him its exactly or very similar to what happened to the Dwarves, jumping all that bout the heart of the god and the other tools (if the quest can jump over the fact that you're not supposed to be able to use Keening with your bare hands, we can jump over lore too :P ), there is the fact that the player can summon Arniel's Shade after the experiment.

 

What it is exactly his shade? I dunno. He can move around, but he cant talk, nor has any expression. Its like he is there in image, but not in soul and body,

 

The thing is that you draw that shade from somewhere to summon it, That is some very useful information, the thing has to be somewhere esle to summon it from there, and that the player has not the ability of summoning anyones else shade but Arniel alone. So, maybe, just maybe, Arniel IS somewhere, and we can summon his image from there.

 

There is the idea that maybe everything except his shade was left after the experiment, but there is also the idea that he is in another realm from where we can only summon his shade. Like an avatar of his real form (this is possible since many times, powerful beings appeared as avatars in Nirn, sometimes in their "complete form" like Akatosh's avatar, or Nocturnal's avatar, or sometimes in their disembodied forms, like most of the Daedric Princes apparitions in their shrines).

 

Probably since he wasnt anywhere close to being a powerful entity in Nirn, nor in other realm, the only expression of himself he can commit to the player once he/seh summons him its his image (or maybe it is a limitation of the player's summoning abilities). Maybe he is in a place so far, so unknown, not Atherius, not Oblivion, that you can only summon his shade from there (that would explain that no matter how skilled is the player in conjuration, you are only able to summon a shade).

 

So my guess is that the Dwarves, as Arniel, are somewhere. Not in Nirn, not in Oblivion, not in Atherius, but somewhere. Maybe between all those realms, maybe in another one.

 

Probably no one can make contact with them cuz all of the Conjuration school revolves around summoning from Oblivion. No one, for example, can summon an Aedra from Atherius. So we could assume that the act of summoning differs when taking in account other realms rather than oblivion, maybe summoning its different for each realm, something like a completely different school of magic that, while doesn't differs in purpose (making contact or summoning beings from other realms), it differs in its ways and means to do so.

 

Thats my "theory" ;P

[IxionInc]

It was C'thulu.

 

Get it? Elder Gods? The Elder SCROLLS?

 

God I'm so witty.

[Lachdonin]

And as to the theory of the Dwemer being in there machines, the soul gems are simply used as heating elements to power their boilers. Plus I think the Dwemer would have bigger aspirations then to trap themselves inside worker drones content with dwelling in there ancient ruins just guarding the place for eternity.

 

The going theory amongst TES lore fanatics who i will freely admit, are my betters, is that they did trap their souls in one of their machines. The Numidium, a god of their own making. The arguement is that, whatever they did, it bound the semi-divine spirits of the entire race of Mer to the nearest Divine being. Thus, they acheived godhood, but not quite in the way Kagrenac expected. This is supported by the fact that the mage in the College of Winterhold becomes bound to the Dragonborn, who is himself divine (Embodying the divine spark of Akatosh) when he tries to recreate the same experement.

 

It was C'thulu.

 

Get it? Elder Gods? The Elder SCROLLS?

 

God I'm so witty.

 

You may not be too far off you know. The Elder Scrolls are the representations of the imagination of the scitzophrenic (I can't spell this early in the morning) Godhead, whose penchant for being neurotic and general uncomprehensable matches the personalities of the Great Old Ones. Which, by the way, C'tulhu was. The Elder Gods were in fact a post-Lovecraft creation to act as a near-benevolent counterpart to the Old Ones and the Outer Gods :P

[Takashidomo]

First, pretty bad idea to think that it could have been cuz they were tampering with an elder scroll. It has been stated over and over that they disappeard the moment when Kagrenac used the tools on the Heart of Lorkhan. No Elder Scroll in the middle.

 

Besides, i think they're already proven their mastery of the Elder Scrolls with designing a machine capable of reading it (so no Dwarven would have to read it himself and get blinded in the process).

 

I don't think the Elder Scroll is the reason for the disappearance, but they most definitely could have used it to research divinity. Also you are right in the fact they found a way to read it without going blind, but that doesn't stop the Elder Scroll from revealing different things to different people. And because they found a way to read it without going blind they could continue to use it for research until they disappeared. the scroll basically helped them make the tools. The Dwemer, as smart as they were, did not have mastery of the Elder Scroll or else they would have seen the their disappearance coming.

[phantur]

. I imagine there's some esoteric means to control the spiders and centurions, nothing so simple as a switch.

The dwemer could go between planes, and talk to each other via their mind. I'd assume the creations of their would either react to a dwemers present, and become friendly, or a dwemer could turn them off via their minds.

 

It would be a fun DLC!

 

The most vile race would be fun? Look what they did to the Snow Elves. look how much war they wagered. Look what they did to morrowind, and themself. Frankly, I love the dwemer. But they are more dangerous than the Thalmor and any dragons. When technology meets primitive, technology tends to win. The Dwemer currently are a few thousand years ahead of anybody else, seing how slow the progress of science is in Tamriel. They'd get some gattling crossbows going and take down armies, while they sit in a cosy castle with machien servants.

 

Besides, I bet the dadreic princes would go berserk if they returned. The Dwemer wasn't too clever when they started tricking and messing with the dadreas.

 

Eh. Crossbows < Longbows.

 

Anyway, the Dwemer are more advanced than we are in some regards! They have robots that function on their own... Artifical intelligence!

[eltucu]

The Dwemer, as smart as they were, did not have mastery of the Elder Scroll or else they would have seen the their disappearance coming.

Maybe plot hole right there :P But yeah, you have a point, "mastery" per se no. That said, Elder Scrolls are aedric artifacts after all, and maybe follow aedric will. I guess that Aedra would have a reason for not to uncover what could happen if the Dwarven messed up the Heart, after all, Lorkhan isnt the most beloved among his peers.

[Matth85]

Well, we do know the Dwemer would challenge Aedra and Daedras alike, and constantly run around whatever problem would come.

Who said a Dwemer didn't see their doom coming? I can easily see one did, but Kagrenac ignored it. As we know he was the last one seen near the Hearth, and could easily have ativated it without approval of the other Dwemers, since everybody else was busy with the war.

[Takashidomo]

That said, Elder Scrolls are aedric artifacts after all, and maybe follow aedric will. I guess that Aedra would have a reason for not to uncover what could happen if the Dwarven messed up the Heart, after all, Lorkhan isnt the most beloved among his peers.

Were they really written by the Aedra? Because some of the in game books, people, and Daedra seem to contradict this and I am really not sure anymore. Also I don't believe the Dwemer messed up the heart because the tribunal used it after right?

Well, we do know the Dwemer would challenge Aedra and Daedras alike, and constantly run around whatever problem would come.

Who said a Dwemer didn't see their doom coming? I can easily see one did, but Kagrenac ignored it. As we know he was the last one seen near the Hearth, and could easily have ativated it without approval of the other Dwemers, since everybody else was busy with the war.

Good point, because the Elder Scrolls tell of all the possible outcomes of any timeline from that point, so it makes sense why Kagrenac would ignore it if other "prophecies" were wrong.

[Lachdonin]

That said, Elder Scrolls are aedric artifacts after all, and maybe follow aedric will. I guess that Aedra would have a reason for not to uncover what could happen if the Dwarven messed up the Heart, after all, Lorkhan isnt the most beloved among his peers.

Were they really written by the Aedra? Because some of the in game books, people, and Daedra seem to contradict this and I am really not sure anymore. Also I don't believe the Dwemer messed up the heart because the tribunal used it after right?

 

The Elder Scrolls are beyond the Aedra or Daedra. Of all the divine-like entities who might have more power than the Scrolls are what i call the 'Primals'. That is, Padomay (Chaos) and Anu (Order). Of course, the scrolls can be considered the same level as these entities, as while Padomay and Anu are representations of the scitzophrenic Godhead's duality, the Scrolls represent a combination of its imagination and sense of reason.

 

Of course, those who have acheived CHIM are above the Elder Scrolls in every way, though no such individual has ever exercised the extent of their power. I have my own hypothesis as to why that is, but thats better served elsewhere...

 

And regarding the Heart, the Yagrum argues that the reason things went wrong when Kagrenac tried to use the Heart of Lorkhan is because he was interupted by Nerevar and Dagoth. Had he finished, he probably would have made the Dwemer gods like the Tribunal. or at the very least made himself one. It was the interuption of the tapping into the Hearts power that caused everything to go pear shaped. The Tribunal, on the other hand, had no such interuptions, and was able to properly carry out the process.