my wish - blocking is 98% successful + bashing takes no stamina

[topeira]

hi guys.

 

i am no modder, but i assumed that a mod like what im looking for might be easy to do if i knew where to look and how to do it.

 

what i hope to achieve is this:

 

1) blocking with a shield stops 98% of incoming damage, unless it's a power attack - then about 20% of it goes through.

 

2) blocking with a weapon stops 93% of incoming damage, unless it's a power attack - then about 30% of it goes through.

 

3) normal weak bashing coasts no stamina or very little stamina but does almost no damage. its mostly meant to stop power attacks (or against very weak enemies).

 

4) power bashes do less damage and take less stamina.

 

5) normal attacks can stagger for a very short time. (this might be harder to do, so im not counting on it being possible ATM, not to mention succeeding with this will require more subsequent changes to the combat mechanics...)

 

 

achiving these goals (at least 1, 2 and 3) will, hopefully, result in a combat that has a lot to do with good defensive skills, blocking and timing the bashes to prevent incoming attacks instead of spamming it just to create windows for attacks.

 

 

so my primary question is - how do i go about editing such values?

 

unless someone else has thought about doing a mod like this, in which case i'll give him the honors. it'll take him a lot less time to do than to help me figure out how to do it myself.

though if it's not more complicated than extracting some files, searching for the right lines and editing values and saving as ESP than i'd give it a shot...

i just dont know where to begin and what tools i might need.... not to mention if it's possible without the CK....

[topeira]

bump (since no one even got to read this yet)

[wolfstriker]

Completely with you here.I am playing the game right now with quick saves and sleeping taken out of game....meaning I just do not quick save nor sleep(sucks since sleeping in an inn gives a 10% bonus to leveling speed while outdoors gives 5%).I also removed the health regen and now rely on all the food,potions I find.I also visit hunters for food and stock up on potions from merchants and finally do some alchemy and cooking to round out my supplies.But now the game is annoying and I'll explain why below.

 

Annoying since an enemy always runs straight at me and attacks me as I am attacking them.This causes every single enemy who attacks me to dwindle my health and in a world where there is no health regen and no saves it depletes my health rather fast and supplies run out fast also.Its actually making the combat boring for me and some way to up the skill that a player has to use would add a lot to this game.

 

One annoyance is the auto scaling.I walk into a cave and see enemies that I just had great battles with in another part of game but this time they are super weak and I one shot kill them or they one shot kill me.Both suck and ruin the immersion IMO.

 

Another is what you are striving for.I think that your idea of making blocking better is one huge area for improvement as would a slight speed increase on the attack animations.This "Could" make the game very twitch based and make for some exciting combat in the way archery vs archery or vs magic at distance is in game right now.It hits me that maybe what Bethesda needs to do for their upcoming games is to forgo the mixing of RPG with FPS style gameplay and focus more on FPS for the fun of it.

 

The thing is now we need to know if the game could be modded so that there are interupts.A system where you stun then attack,or block and block until you see a power swing being readied and then with your faster weapon you attack....or stun then power attack etc etc.The great thing about this is that we would not need to work super hard at balance since its not a multiplayer game where the players will be bitching on every aspect but instead it can be tweaked for fun yet hard gameplay/combat.

 

So I am with yaaaa brotha. :wink:

[topeira]

good to hear there's someone else like me.

 

the bashing as a means to stop a power attack is already there. power bashing to open up the enemy is there as well. blocking is there (if u equip the proper hands combo for it) and power attacks that go through the defense are there as well. most of the mechanics are there!

i think that skyrim, WAY MORE than oblivion, is close to have a great combat system with mods.

 

but until someone like minded like us will use the CK to do this, the system can be improved by minor tweaking. just make blocking really effective and lower the damage and stamina of the weaker bashing. this will help a lot.

[wolfstriker]

I see we might be alone here and I take it many people who play Bethesda games want more of an RPG stat based fighting system.There are people trying to mod arrows to be purely player skilled so maybe they will see what can become of melee after they finish tackling that issue.I guess for now we could start by just using console and upping the block skill,don't really know what the actual block number does but the perks are obvious.

 

EDIT just tested and putting block to 500 does nothing so I think you need to raise the shield wall to 5th rank and do not know how to do that with console.Also I can seem to be faster than the power attack that is being setup but the combat end animation seems to have a triger and once its set the fights over....needs to be removed.

 

power attack stuns(maximum stun)...great since the attacker also gets slowed from the weapon throwing off balance

shield/weapon bash stuns(medium stun?) are great to interrupt incoming power attack

 

power attack....should it limit the forward speeds so that you could also step back to avoid being hit?

[wolfstriker]

Some more playing around and I come to find that the melee could be very satisfying in Skyrim.I met a warhammer wielding opponent who seemed auto leveled perfectly to me....or at least to my skills at the time.I saved and had around 25 addicting fights one after another with this NPC.I was using tactics like running towards enemy to trigger a power attack and then either weapon bashing to stun or timing it just right and retreating out of the way of the attack.This was one fun encounter and I was setting up combos and my mind was even thinking of things like ok my armor is pretty strong and he is about to power attack and I will do one also....knowing I had good protection to not die from the one power attack.Or block/stun/stun/fast attack/block/block/shield bash/retreat and do reverse power attack timing the enemies advance right into the impact point perfectly.Really satisfying except for the end kill animations that seem to trigger and nothing you do can stop it even if you should of blocked and survived.But all is not well in lala land and the exact next room I entered was a guy in studded armor skirt and shoulder pad armed with a bow who just would not die.Power attack after power attack and Lydia pecking away with arrows and immersion is just drained away.Another enemy who looked exactly like the perfect opponent from earlier was power attacking me with a war axe and just cutting right thru my blocks and seemed to trigger the end kill animations rapidly as if he had a perk to enable high multiplier damage.

 

 

What I feel would be amazing is a stat based fighting system where enemies have similar abilities to you and no obscene skill levels that defy physics.Opens up a world of possibilities like having different races have different movement speeds so that say an elf in light armor relies more on dodging and skirting outside of the enemies attack range and a slower race like an Orc will rely on heavy armor to take the brunt of damage that goes thru his blocks.

[topeira]

i know what you mean - in many cases melee combat can be really satisfying and fun -

the basics are simple - blocking works well against normal attacks. bashing is a MUST against power attacks. power attacks work well against blocking enemies.

when these rulls are followed than combat can be really satisfying. BUT the occasional enemy that can take 10 hits from a battle axe or the horribly annoying instant death kills the casual bandit can do to the player without him being able to stop him - these break the game.

 

there are already mods that prevent the instant kill animations by the PC. why are there no such mods that work on the AI yet?

[wolfstriker]

Sadly gameplay is different to different people.Its a crazy world where naked women in game is more important than gameplay and high ranked mods include better elf eyes LOL.It sucks since Skyrim is a master game and it oozes RPG'ness but falters in its execution.What I think is wrong is it tries to be epic or have your character be too epic where a game that is less epic is easier to balance.Also some design choices I can't seem to agree with.

 

I am carrying enough weapons(magical)to supply a small group of fighters.They should of made any weapon magical if you arcane enchant it with soul gems.This way you do not have to carry around a frost axe,a fire axe,an axe that drains stamina etc you instead alter the soul gem.

 

The variation that the creatures of the Skyrim world can take damage is staggering.It seems bears are not auto leveled and they are ridiculously hard at beginning and even at level 15.I like that but if they made the player character just get slightly better over time they could of made them much weaker to begin with.I like undead being twice as hard to kill as humans but some of them are easy and some are ridiculous.Make the bosses just have slightly more damage when attacking,don't just add a zillion hitpoints and call them boss.Or at least put them in best armor.A clearly visual studded leather fighters and the boss is wearing a full steel armor set would lend you a hand in knowing that this guy is tough.Instead you find a steel helmet in a closet in one dungeon and steel armor in a toilet in another. :pirate:

 

I go to clear out a bandit camp and the first fight was so sweet.I take out two archers with a reasonable 4 ARCHERY shots each and then duel an enemy with a two hander against my two hander and we block and attack and it felt GREAT!! Then I find a back entrance but what waits inside is bandits on a different level.One on one and while I have dwarven armor compared to my enemies iron and while I have a magical frost weapon compared to his steel weapon he kills me in two to three hits while I have to power attack 5 to 6 times.I do not even have an idea why that is or how that is.:( Its like the game wants me to struggle and replay the part over and over again to prolong the game....a very real tactic game companies use.But Skyrim is huge and there is no reason for that in a game that could take months.Arrrgghhh sorry I just had to rant that out.

Edited November 25, 2011 by wolfstriker

[Forsaken32]

Being a little lazy about reading the entire topic here, but this is something that will likely be possible once the Creation Kit is out for this game, otherwise it would take someone very skilled if it's even possible right now. There's some kind of program that can make esp's but it's complicated to use.

[wolfstriker]

Just found this on another site and its an explanation of whats happening to me.A removal of the RPG part of Skyrim would cure this but will it be fun?I would love to see,armor and weapons being same,fights where the enemie can two shot power attack kill me compared to a lesser enemy having to take 4 shots.This would remove the "BOSS" final battles that are mainstay in RPG's and done by simply upping the boss's hitpoints to ridiculous.

 

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The problem with levelling is that your enemies get tougher every level you go up, but your level doesn't decide your weapon damage, its your skill with that weapon that decides your weapon damage.

 

For example say you're level 5 with 30 archery skill and 30 apothecary skill. You save up loads of ingredients and visit a town and brew hundreds of potions and level up your apothecary skill from 30 to 40. By levelling your apothecary you manage to go from level 5 to level 6.

 

Now you face level 6 monsters, only your archery skill is still level 30 so your damage output is the same as level 5, but your enemies take more damage. So your enemies are now relatively harder than they were before, essentially by levelling non-combat skills you've actually become weaker vs enemies around you.

 

Now that's an extreme example based on grinding 1 specific skill but underlying premise is correct. Consider the long term effects, almost everything you do in the game raises non-combat skills.

 

Taking damage and blocking increases armour and blocking skills

Trading/Convincing increases speech

Crafting increases smithing skill

Apothecary increases Alchemy

Lockpicking increases lockpicking

Stealing from people increases pickpocket

Sneaking increases sneaking

 

 

It means every time you pick a lock, or smith a weapon you're contributing to your own level which means you're contributing to the enemies level and you're giving your enemy an advantage over you.

 

It's counter intuitive you assume that any skill such as archery is earned and that once you're level 75 in archery then you're bad ass at it and will remain so, but if you stop levelling archery and focus on other skills then your archery will get weaker and weaker over time (relative to your enemies).

Edited November 25, 2011 by wolfstriker