Imperial legion ranks

[ninga_express]

I'm planning a legion mod and I'm trying to make sense of the ranks in Skyrim, does anyone know the entire rank organisation?

In morrowind they had the peacetime ranks and Skyrim should obviously be war time ranks but it's weird because they added legate, tribunes auxillaries and Praefects.

Edited November 25, 2011 by ninga_express

[Lachdonin]

The Roman Legion, which the Imperial Legion is based off of, didn't have that many 'true' rakns. It had something like 30 overall ranks, but that covered soldiers discharged due to wounds, artillery officers, MP's and so forth.

 

What i refer to 'true' ranks are the standard rank structure within the Legion proper.

 

Tha is;

 

Assencus (Conscript or light infantry)

Legionary (Regular soldier)

Centurian (Lower officer/captain)

Legatus (High officer/General)

 

Cavalry had the same general structure, with different names.

 

The rankings in Skyrim (That you can reach) are as follows;

 

Auxillary (recruit)

Quaestor (regular soldier)

Praefect (Sergeant)

Tribune (captain)

Legate (Lieutenant)

 

With one unatainable;

General

 

Sometimes i hear individuals using terms such as Lieutenant and Captain, but i beleive these are more 'common' tems than official ranks. For instance, there are 3 ranks within the Canadian Armed Forces which are all refered to as Lieutenant.

 

There would, of course, be specialist ranks, such as Knight of the Imperial Dragon, which serve as honorific and discriptive ranks rather than functional, similar to the wealth of 'ranks' you find in the Roman Legion.

[saintjimmyz]

Thats partly because bethesda have just used roman sounding words in place of actual ranks. Quaestors and Praefects were junior bureaucratic roles in Rome, the Tribunes were ten elected representitives of the common people in the senate pre Augustus, and post Augustus the emperors power lay purely behind being the sole tribune. Legates were appointed govenors of provinces, given to ex consuls of the senate.

 

I cannot fathom why bethesda have gone with these new 'ranks', given the perfectly good existing structure left over from Morrowind, but it fits in with the general f@&#!try that has inflicted bethesda since they began work on oblivion.

[Lachdonin]

I cannot fathom why bethesda have gone with these new 'ranks', given the perfectly good existing structure left over from Morrowind, but it fits in with the general f@&#!try that has inflicted bethesda since they began work on oblivion.

 

Morrowind also didn't have the distinct 'Nine Divines' but instead had the Imperial Cult. Should they have just suck with a unified idea instead of going back to the individual divinities?

 

The switch to latinised names is a thematic one, reinforcing the psudeo-Rome design of the Empire in general. 90% of people don't know what the ranks and titles within the Roman hierarchy were, so the actual correlation are irrelivent. It's the same with husing bastard-latin in Warhammer 40,000. It sounds cool, and hit helps maintain a certian theme.

 

I fail to see how it even approaches 'f@&#!try', but i suppose there are always bitter fan-boys who can't seem to deal with change, even when its positive.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Lachdonin

[ninga_express]

Thanks for the input guys.

 

Aren't Auxillaries non civilian soldiers, like mercenaries? And praefects lead the auxillaries?

aren't Quaestors quartermasters?

I'm trying to make sense of it, how do I go from a sergeant of an irregular force to the guy who is in charge of equipment?

Edited November 26, 2011 by ninga_express

[NephilimNexus]

Also factor in, for Oblivion at least, the strong "Akaviri" influence within the Empire, too - hence the Japanese style swords married to Roman style armor. Which frankly just looks really, really cool - which, in turn, is probably why they did it.

 

Remember, kids, this is a fantasy game, not a historical simulation. One could easily make these same criticisms about the Romulans from Star Trek, and the producers would give the exact same retorts.

[ninga_express]

I appreciate where you're coming from NephilimNexus, but I want to create a mod(even as simple as renaming officers) and I'd like some concrete ranks that do make sense to put into it.

[Lachdonin]

If you want a concrete break down, i doubt you're going to find it. That said, i think the 6 ranks i mentioned earlier, along with their corrisponding common rank, are a good place to start.

 

Remember though that just because a Quaestor was a financial officer in the Roman Empire doesn't mean its going to be the same for the TES Empire. It's a cool sounding word, after all, and for most people to hear it pronounced would assume it has something to do with questing.

 

By and large, i think the breakdown fits with the structure of the Legion, and as i said there would be offshoots and 'special' ranks for particular jobs. A Banner Bearer would have hos own title for instance, asside from whatever rank he may formally hold (Which would probably be Tribune).

 

My problem, however, stems from the Tribune Leggate thing... I have heard people refer to me as Captain when i hold the rank of Tribune, and the Leggate's are refered to as the Generals Lieutenants, but a Captain is a higher rank than a Lieutenant...

[mallard7]

My problem, however, stems from the Tribune Leggate thing... I have heard people refer to me as Captain when i hold the rank of Tribune, and the Leggate's are refered to as the Generals Lieutenants, but a Captain is a higher rank than a Lieutenant...

 

Actually that bit is correct. A lieutenant is in relation to another, and sort of means right hand man or supporter or deputy. It originally means 'representative'. A lieutenant general is a supporting general, a general's lieutenants are in support to the general.

 

You are correct that without qualifiers the vanilla lieutenant generally refers to being in support of a captain or company (it is slightly different in the navy, where a lieutenant could command a small ship like a sloop or a minesweeper)

 

So a Legate could well be considered a General's lieutenant, if his legion is under the General's command at the time.

[Lachdonin]

Yes, but that use of the word is in a relitive relation to a higher authority, thus functioning more as a title rather than a rank. Ranks, in contrast, are a defined, graded level of authority, relative only in terms to eachother and not in terms to a singular individual.