The DB let me down. Here's how to save it.

[HaikenEdge]

No more conversation eh? I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on here.

I'm taking time off from brainstorming; I can certainly come up with ideas, I just don't want to burn through them all at once.

 

If anything, I'd think an underbelly of organized crime would give the Dark Brotherhood some extra income, and possibly put the guild in contention with the Thieves Guild; yes, murder may remain the Dark Brotherhood's main thing, but there's no reason why the organization, which appears to be really poor and near the very bottom of a very uncomfortable valley, can't climb back up and reinvent itself. They say money makes the world go round, so why not have the Dark Brotherhood take this to the core of its existence and bolster its murderous ways with other criminal activities? I mean, it's not like they have a torture chamber in the sanctum... wait... what?

 

That said, I need time to organize my thoughts... I have ideas on how to expand the Dark Brotherhood into organized crime, and to take aspects into consideration when bringing it back to the assassination/murder aspect of the organization, but I don't want to blow my entire load too quickly.

[uruku7]

There were some fun parts, and I liked a few of the characters, but overall it was severely lacking. The thing that would be a spoiler if I said it, was far too easy, happened too fast, and as usual, no one in Skyrim cares. As with everything else in Skyrim, impact would be nice. I hope the DLC is a whole new game, in another province.

 

For me, there is a lot of good stuff in Skyrim, some great ideas, most of which poorly executed.

[CloudVvulf]

No more conversation eh? I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on here.

I'm taking time off from brainstorming; I can certainly come up with ideas, I just don't want to burn through them all at once.

 

If anything, I'd think an underbelly of organized crime would give the Dark Brotherhood some extra income, and possibly put the guild in contention with the Thieves Guild; yes, murder may remain the Dark Brotherhood's main thing, but there's no reason why the organization, which appears to be really poor and near the very bottom of a very uncomfortable valley, can't climb back up and reinvent itself. They say money makes the world go round, so why not have the Dark Brotherhood take this to the core of its existence and bolster its murderous ways with other criminal activities? I mean, it's not like they have a torture chamber in the sanctum... wait... what?

 

That said, I need time to organize my thoughts... I have ideas on how to expand the Dark Brotherhood into organized crime, and to take aspects into consideration when bringing it back to the assassination/murder aspect of the organization, but I don't want to blow my entire load too quickly.

 

Sounds like turning the Dark Brotherhood into the Wal Mart of organized crime. Leave the organized crime to the Thieve's Guild.

[HaikenEdge]

No more conversation eh? I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on here.

I'm taking time off from brainstorming; I can certainly come up with ideas, I just don't want to burn through them all at once.

 

If anything, I'd think an underbelly of organized crime would give the Dark Brotherhood some extra income, and possibly put the guild in contention with the Thieves Guild; yes, murder may remain the Dark Brotherhood's main thing, but there's no reason why the organization, which appears to be really poor and near the very bottom of a very uncomfortable valley, can't climb back up and reinvent itself. They say money makes the world go round, so why not have the Dark Brotherhood take this to the core of its existence and bolster its murderous ways with other criminal activities? I mean, it's not like they have a torture chamber in the sanctum... wait... what?

 

That said, I need time to organize my thoughts... I have ideas on how to expand the Dark Brotherhood into organized crime, and to take aspects into consideration when bringing it back to the assassination/murder aspect of the organization, but I don't want to blow my entire load too quickly.

 

Sounds like turning the Dark Brotherhood into the Wal Mart of organized crime. Leave the organized crime to the Thieve's Guild.

The Thieves' Guild doesn't really handle that many kinds of crime; in the arc in both Oblivion and Skyrim, the Thieves Guild does one thing in common: steal objects. In Skyrim, the Thieves Guild also has a protection racket going on, but beyond that, the guild isn't really involved in anything beyond stealing stuff. This leaves the following rackets completely uncovered by any organization: armed robberies, kidnappings (for profit), smuggling, prostitution, gambling and political rackets. While Maven Black-Briar appears to be involved some sort of political racket, she's not really a member of the Thieves Guild, so, essentially, there's a whole world of crime missing from Skyrim, period.

 

What I'm considering is an expansion of the Dark Brotherhood (if the player chooses) into more rackets in order to create more income for the organization, to better fund the organization's rebuilding process. I'm not saying that the Thieves Guild shouldn't also take over some of these rackets (they certainly should), but, as it stands, core game doesn't have any of these rackets covered by any criminal elements, though I dare say that it's because the developers might think it hard to sympathize with an organization that does the things previously mentioned.

 

In the case of expanding the Dark Brotherhood into rackets, the mod itself should probably also cover the Thieves Guild, in order to create a kind of dynamic relationship between the two organizations. Such a mod would need to track the control over each individual racket each organization has, with the possibility of a war breaking out between both organizations. That said, it seems unlikely the Thieves Guild is outfitted to handle organized crime of any sort, considering that killing anybody while on a job for the guild would theoretically get the person thrown in jail (see Molgrom Twice-Killed); this is why I think the Dark Brotherhood would be better suited for an organized crime feel, because the Dark Brotherhood has no problems killing anybody.

[CloudVvulf]

No more conversation eh? I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on here.

I'm taking time off from brainstorming; I can certainly come up with ideas, I just don't want to burn through them all at once.

 

If anything, I'd think an underbelly of organized crime would give the Dark Brotherhood some extra income, and possibly put the guild in contention with the Thieves Guild; yes, murder may remain the Dark Brotherhood's main thing, but there's no reason why the organization, which appears to be really poor and near the very bottom of a very uncomfortable valley, can't climb back up and reinvent itself. They say money makes the world go round, so why not have the Dark Brotherhood take this to the core of its existence and bolster its murderous ways with other criminal activities? I mean, it's not like they have a torture chamber in the sanctum... wait... what?

 

That said, I need time to organize my thoughts... I have ideas on how to expand the Dark Brotherhood into organized crime, and to take aspects into consideration when bringing it back to the assassination/murder aspect of the organization, but I don't want to blow my entire load too quickly.

 

Sounds like turning the Dark Brotherhood into the Wal Mart of organized crime. Leave the organized crime to the Thieve's Guild.

The Thieves' Guild doesn't really handle that many kinds of crime; in the arc in both Oblivion and Skyrim, the Thieves Guild does one thing in common: steal objects. In Skyrim, the Thieves Guild also has a protection racket going on, but beyond that, the guild isn't really involved in anything beyond stealing stuff. This leaves the following rackets completely uncovered by any organization: armed robberies, kidnappings (for profit), smuggling, prostitution, gambling and political rackets. While Maven Black-Briar appears to be involved some sort of political racket, she's not really a member of the Thieves Guild, so, essentially, there's a whole world of crime missing from Skyrim, period.

 

What I'm considering is an expansion of the Dark Brotherhood (if the player chooses) into more rackets in order to create more income for the organization, to better fund the organization's rebuilding process. I'm not saying that the Thieves Guild shouldn't also take over some of these rackets (they certainly should), but, as it stands, core game doesn't have any of these rackets covered by any criminal elements, though I dare say that it's because the developers might think it hard to sympathize with an organization that does the things previously mentioned.

 

In the case of expanding the Dark Brotherhood into rackets, the mod itself should probably also cover the Thieves Guild, in order to create a kind of dynamic relationship between the two organizations. Such a mod would need to track the control over each individual racket each organization has, with the possibility of a war breaking out between both organizations. That said, it seems unlikely the Thieves Guild is outfitted to handle organized crime of any sort, considering that killing anybody while on a job for the guild would theoretically get the person thrown in jail (see Molgrom Twice-Killed); this is why I think the Dark Brotherhood would be better suited for an organized crime feel, because the Dark Brotherhood has no problems killing anybody.

 

It takes away from the "legendary assassin" vibe that the Dark Brotherhood has, they would be more like "thugs". I also thought the Dark Brotherhood was more in it for the killing itself, rather than the money, they money was more for covering living expenses, bribes and the like. The Thieve's Guild is the more profit driven organization.

 

They should have some blackmail quests and extortion quests but armed robbery, gambling, smuggling etc seems kind of "beneath them". I could see quests that involved portraying assassinations as botched robberies though.

[HaikenEdge]

No more conversation eh? I thought there was a lot of good discussion going on here.

I'm taking time off from brainstorming; I can certainly come up with ideas, I just don't want to burn through them all at once.

 

If anything, I'd think an underbelly of organized crime would give the Dark Brotherhood some extra income, and possibly put the guild in contention with the Thieves Guild; yes, murder may remain the Dark Brotherhood's main thing, but there's no reason why the organization, which appears to be really poor and near the very bottom of a very uncomfortable valley, can't climb back up and reinvent itself. They say money makes the world go round, so why not have the Dark Brotherhood take this to the core of its existence and bolster its murderous ways with other criminal activities? I mean, it's not like they have a torture chamber in the sanctum... wait... what?

 

That said, I need time to organize my thoughts... I have ideas on how to expand the Dark Brotherhood into organized crime, and to take aspects into consideration when bringing it back to the assassination/murder aspect of the organization, but I don't want to blow my entire load too quickly.

 

Sounds like turning the Dark Brotherhood into the Wal Mart of organized crime. Leave the organized crime to the Thieve's Guild.

The Thieves' Guild doesn't really handle that many kinds of crime; in the arc in both Oblivion and Skyrim, the Thieves Guild does one thing in common: steal objects. In Skyrim, the Thieves Guild also has a protection racket going on, but beyond that, the guild isn't really involved in anything beyond stealing stuff. This leaves the following rackets completely uncovered by any organization: armed robberies, kidnappings (for profit), smuggling, prostitution, gambling and political rackets. While Maven Black-Briar appears to be involved some sort of political racket, she's not really a member of the Thieves Guild, so, essentially, there's a whole world of crime missing from Skyrim, period.

 

What I'm considering is an expansion of the Dark Brotherhood (if the player chooses) into more rackets in order to create more income for the organization, to better fund the organization's rebuilding process. I'm not saying that the Thieves Guild shouldn't also take over some of these rackets (they certainly should), but, as it stands, core game doesn't have any of these rackets covered by any criminal elements, though I dare say that it's because the developers might think it hard to sympathize with an organization that does the things previously mentioned.

 

In the case of expanding the Dark Brotherhood into rackets, the mod itself should probably also cover the Thieves Guild, in order to create a kind of dynamic relationship between the two organizations. Such a mod would need to track the control over each individual racket each organization has, with the possibility of a war breaking out between both organizations. That said, it seems unlikely the Thieves Guild is outfitted to handle organized crime of any sort, considering that killing anybody while on a job for the guild would theoretically get the person thrown in jail (see Molgrom Twice-Killed); this is why I think the Dark Brotherhood would be better suited for an organized crime feel, because the Dark Brotherhood has no problems killing anybody.

 

It takes away from the "legendary assassin" vibe that the Dark Brotherhood has, they would be more like "thugs". I also thought the Dark Brotherhood was more in it for the killing itself, rather than the money, they money was more for covering living expenses, bribes and the like. The Thieve's Guild is the more profit driven organization.

 

They should have some blackmail quests and extortion quests but armed robbery, gambling, smuggling etc seems kind of "beneath them". I could see quests that involved portraying assassinations as botched robberies though.

Hard to say if certain rackets are beneath them; in the torture chamber, the PC can torture victims into giving up the location of their stashes, so kidnapping for profit certainly isn't beneath the Dark Brotherhood. Armed robbery without any actual threat of killing the victim isn't really going to threaten anybody; and smuggling and gambling seems beyond the ken of the Thieves Guild.

 

In a way, the main problem is that official lore has shoehorned both organizations (Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood) into fairly specialized niches (theft via burglary or pickpocketing and murder for hire, respectively); meanwhile, the rest of the rackets were never really covered by either organization. In this sense, both the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood are criminal organizations that have been romanticized, the Thieves Guild as burglars and pickpockets who eschew violence in preference of finesse, and the Dark Brotherhood as a cult of assassins that will murder anybody for a small fee but have a code of conduct. This, unfortunately, leaves most crimes uncovered, and I think a good mod for criminal-types would expand both organizations to cover these rackets, with I think the more violent ones going more towards the Dark Brotherhood (which is in principle not adverse to using violence), and the less violent ones (prostitution, gambling) going to the Thieves Guild, while the middle ground stuff could go either way.

[uruku7]

I don't think the DB should be involved in anything but murder for hire. All this racketeering (I think) would be better for either a new faction, or maybe a player-run gang.

[metall87]

My opinion is the same, the DB quests in SKyrim were retarded and boring. It was the usual same business, "enter the place and kill'em all."

 

I remember learning something in the DB of Oblivion:

. Investigate escape routes

. learn the movements of the victims, or guards.

. choose the right moment.

. Kill it and escape with no problem.

 

Hell, I still don't understand. Why there is only one sanctuary that remains in all of Tamriel? and, in the end the questline ends so suddenly?

 

I say that Assassin's Creed was copied from DB Oblivion :tongue: .

 

I would not buy a DB DLC, mainly because this should be fixed in the first release or in patches. But yes, this should be a mod at least.

Edited November 28, 2011 by metall87

[uruku7]

My opinion is the same, the DB quests in SKyrim were retarded and boring. It was the usual same business, "enter the place and kill'em all."

 

I remember learning something in the DB of Oblivion:

. Investigate escape routes

. learn the movements of the victims, or guards.

. choose the right moment.

. Kill it and escape with no problem.

 

Hell, I still don't understand. Why there is only one sanctuary that remains in all of Tamriel? and, in the end the questline ends so suddenly?

 

I say that Assassin's Creed was copied from DB Oblivion :tongue: .

 

I would not buy a DB DLC, mainly because this should be fixed in the first release or in patches. But yes, this should be a mod at least.

 

It seems stealth isn't even much encouraged here. I remember Astrid mentioning it's ok to get caught, just do your time, and come back. That seemed very unlike the Dark Brotherhood to me. I'm starting to wonder if the developers ever played an Elder Scrolls game!

Edited November 28, 2011 by uruku7

[Draco856]

They were no longer the Dark Brotherhood, once the Listener died, they pretty much tried to keep up, but they failed miserably, contracts went undone, sanctuary's were attacked and destroyed, purification's were done in some, and others were simply killed while trying to survive until a new listener was chosen. The Fall of the Dark Brotherhood is explained in Cicero's journals, there are 5 of them, 1 - 4 and the final one you get when you have to go find him after his attack on Astrid the Blasphemer...though she gives me Shadowmere so she can't be all bad...but then she tries to have me kill, so she's back to being a female dog...then she sacrifices herself, so she's good again...stick to one path and stay with it dammit...