Redoing the armor system

[AdeptusAstrates]

Nice Idea.. one other add: how about splitting the armors in Torso and Legs? So that one has more freedom in equipping the character...

[uruku7]

Doesn't make sense to me. Why would hide be a good defense against animals? Animals rip through each other's hide all the time. I like it as-is, for the most part. I don't see why a dragon's dead bones would offer any special protection aside from the strength of the bone itself. Same for steel and what not. The only thing I could see as offering any extra special protection would be Daedric.

 

Also, I think any armor, aside from obvious weak armors, should be extremely resistant to anything but maces and axes. You could swing a sword at steel plate all day, and you'll probably just make it ugly.

 

As for magic vs armor, I think it should offer great protection up until a point vs frost or fire. Like, you could freeze or boil someone inside their armor, but one fireball, or a frost spear, shouldn't do much.

Edited November 29, 2011 by uruku7

[n1n3f0ur]

You can't take any sort of evolution or natural selection into account with TES. All things, especially dragons, were created and divinely inspired. It can't really be determined the exact properties of dragon materials because they may not even adhere to the structures created by living things as we understand them. If it's any hint as to what a dragon, in TES, might be like, Alduin and Paarthurnax are, in nordic tradition, the descendants of the Aedric deity Akatosh. As well, Akatosh is depicted as a dragon (remember the main quest line of Oblivion). We know that, for the playablility of dragon hunting in Skyrim, that dragons are susceptible to weapons but that does not necessarily mean that they are not much more powerful in lore. If you still think that major changes need to be made to the dragon armor system then why not separate the materials and armor by dragon color classification instead. It is established that different types of dragons have varying levels of power and this would not conflict with TES lore.

[Levgre]

Doesn't make sense to me. Why would hide be a good defense against animals? Animals rip through each other's hide all the time. I like it as-is, for the most part. I don't see why a dragon's dead bones would offer any special protection aside from the strength of the bone itself. Same for steel and what not. The only thing I could see as offering any extra special protection would be Daedric.

 

Also, I think any armor, aside from obvious weak armors, should be extremely resistant to anything but maces and axes. You could swing a sword at steel plate all day, and you'll probably just make it ugly.

 

As for magic vs armor, I think it should offer great protection up until a point vs frost or fire. Like, you could freeze or boil someone inside their armor, but one fireball, or a frost spear, shouldn't do much.

 

Well hide armor is essentially thicker and tempered animal skin. If you watch videos of predators some have a very difficult time getting through a thick hide. So Hide armor would definitely be better suited against a bite/claw than a sword, although steel would obviously stop a bite also. So feasibly hide could have a bonus vs animal attacks, say 15 base armor +50%, would make it 22.5 vs bites/etc., while steel would still be 30 armor rating. I think a defense vs cold for hide might be more thematic, though.

 

You are correct that slashing a sword is ineffective against plate. Although slapping a steel helmet with a sword could certainly disorient the person, and then it'd be easier to stab into the armor gaps, which was the primary method of defeating someone in plate armor if you had a blade (English bowmen carried knives specifically for stabbing at the neck armor gap).

 

Honestly, you can't get that realistic with armor/weapons. If you had a sword you weren't screwed against someone in plate, but we can't replicate the swordplay needed in such a battle. I could see a % reduction to damage vs heavy armor with swords, though, just as you can get the mace feats that get the bonus % vs armor.

 

As for dragon bones being more resistant vs elements, think about it. Dragons literally have a furnace generating tremendous blasts of fire/ice/lightning inside them. Their body has to be able to tolerate that.

 

Dwarves and Elves use different material for their armor, so you could imagine that those materials have different physical properties and resist certain elements.

 

I really like the idea of the creation of Daedric armor being linked to rituals... it could make it very unique instead of just being "l33t uberstrong armor". And more customization with armor material/linings. It may be hard to imagine what all those combinations do, but even as an aesthetic tool it would be cool.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Levgre

[Darksun45230]

Doesn't make sense to me. Why would hide be a good defense against animals? Animals rip through each other's hide all the time.

 

That was just an example. Fur armor would probably resist cold (and/or could be integrated with realism mod to resist natural cold.)

[Linsolv]

I would just use it as a nearly-pure weight-vs-mobility comparison, except that some blacksmiths would be better than others (hence why Eorlund is better; not cause he's using Skyforge which somehow makes him better, but because his steel is legendary for its quality).

[droscoe2]

I wanted to do a mod similar, but I'm busy with an armor dye mod.

 

If you retextured all armor sets so that each style can be any/all types of materials, then that would over 2160 new textures. Quite a bit of work.

 

Maybe give each material some inherit properties based on real world information:

Glass: +x% Shock Protection (because glass is not a good conductor)

+x% Weakness to Blunt weapons

Iron: +x% Weakness to Fire (because it has a rather high thermal conductivity)

+x% Weakness to Shock (it is a mild conductor of electricity, so this wouldn't be a big number)

Silver: +x% to Fire Damage (for a weapon, because Silver has very high thermal conductivity)

+x% to Shock Damage (a high conductor)

I read some info on a 'realism/hardcore' mod that might include effects based on temperature. (Cold temperatures effecting stamina, fatigue, strength, etc) So maybe...

Hide or Wolf armor: +x% Cold Protection (to prevent any penalties to attributes that this mod may induce)

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

For my Armor Dye mod, I intend on including Gold plating, Silver Plating, and Copper Plating. I am thinking of following a common sense approach when considering damage types and their effects on X-plated armor. (within lore-friendly terms at least)

Gold:

Weakness to Shock

Weakness to Fire

etc

 

Silver:

Weakness to Shock

Weakness to Fire

etc

 

Of course, they would have positive effects as well.

[macole]

What would I like to see in changes to the armor system? Talk of armor is most interesting and when dreaming this is what I think;

 

Elven armor should not necessarily always be light!. There should be a heavy version also. It is the style, the look and the mithril that makes it elven not the weight.

 

I like the idea of separate armor pieces to enhance your freedom in equipping the character. I would think the goal would be not to retextured all armor sets so that each style can be any/all types of materials but rather to break apart the current single armor set into its components. Simply it would contain just two pieces; upper and lower body. A more complex look would entail some combination of the separate pieces namely cuirass, gorget, gauntlets, schynbald or greaves, sabaton (boots and boot covers), vambrace and pauldrons left and right.

 

My thought about why there is glass armor is that glass reflects spells better than anything else, fair against swords and edged weapons but totally useless against a hammer or pick without magical enchantments though.

 

Several have mentioned giving the different smiths individual skill or mastery levels. That is a real good idea and I hope someone explores the feasibility

 

Dwarven armor, that's the one thing in the smithing perk tree that really irks me. How can this be? The Dwemer and their technology have been missing from Tamriel for ages. There is no one living that knows how to craft true Dwemer armour. It is more than using a certain metal there are technologies involved that just don't exists in Tamriel anymore. Dwemer should be found as loot only and the perk taken out of the tree. Unless of course the dwarven armor is only a cheap imitation of the real deal. In that case leave the perk in and place a couple suits of true Dwemer armour buried deep in some dungeons to be found as loot. Extremely heavy and very resistant to physical damage but due to Dwemer technology (I suspect pneumatics used in the joints) it gives a boost to strength to compensate. It should be very hard to obtain but well worth the effort.

[macole]

 

As for magic vs armor, I think it should offer great protection up until a point vs frost or fire. Like, you could freeze or boil someone inside their armor, but one fireball, or a frost spear, shouldn't do much.

 

Yep, it is the old the armor sustained the dragon attack just fine but ser john is a cinder syndrome,

[Zoltan51]

In Oblivion we could use durability to balance that:

- Glass was relatively light and highly efficient, but brittle

- Dwemer on the other side of the spectrum, super durable but heavy too.

 

Of course, re-introducing it isn't the way to go in Skyrim. We want to add to the player's tactical choices, not to harrass him with micromanagement.

 

Anyway, I want Dwemer power armor.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Zoltan51