Winter is coming

[tartarsauce2]

there's a mod in production called FROST that is being done by the guy who made DUST for new vegas

"naugrim04" on reddit is the name to look for - exposure was one of the aspects to it and someone linked to http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/17491/? as something (it's someone else's mod but probably goes well with it for the survival system in general) to make them HYPE for FROST... which makes the survival mods that make things more "realistic" that gas mask mod, FROST and weaponsmith extended turn all of this into what I had hoped/thought metro 2033 and last light would be :devil: (no complaints about metro I'm quite pleased albeit surprised) but now I get them AND what I thought they'd be

"I had originally planned to release an early alpha in late August to early September, but for the last couple of weeks (and for the next few weeks) I haven't had access to my modding computer. I'm still aiming for a September release, but I can't make any promises."

if it's anything as psychopathic as DUST was from what I saw.... oh god I'm gonna be so happy, and... who cares if it's realistic, I'm shooting laser beams at mutants, cyborgs, robots and wearing a mechanical tank with cold fusion packs the size of a fist while shooting people in the face point blank with a shotgun and they're still alive

Edited September 1, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[Moksha8088]

I hear you about winter coming. The survivors in the wasteland Commonwealth may be oblivious to much of this, but I suspect the White Walkers will be able to pierce the Canadian Ice Shield shortly after Daenerys Targaryen sails her new fleet of ships into Boston Harbor looking for more than a friendly tea party.

 

They might have to summon a champion used to the ice and cold. Yes, I am talking about the Dragonborn!!!

[Stronglav]

 

SWEET ICE CASTLES

press E to lick castle

Hee hee

http://www.socialmediadominance.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Stay-Warm-Out-There-and....png

 

 

Have you licked a lampost in the winter?

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

I assume that the reasoning has nothing to do with alleged climate change making things more temperate (motherf*#@ing radiation storms, guys) and a lot to do with the insecurity of life in the commonwealth. If you live in some awful post-apocalyptic world and you've been homeless and hounded by raiders and mutants for the majority of your life, then you're not likely to come in to a newly-established settlement and say "you know what this is going to work out great I'm gonna build myself a whimsical cottage and put a harpischord in it and nothing could possibly go wrong." You're just going to set up what you need right now, take it one step at a time, and worry about winter when winter comes, and then maybe when you've been there for a while and it starts to look like things might work out long-term, then consider investing more effort into housing.

This doesn't mean they're setting themselves up for disaster. A group of twenty settlers working together could scrap their summer shacks and convert the materials and earth into a decently warm semi-earthen shelter over the course of a couple days once it starts to get cold, if they've decided they want to stay put for the winter. If they can't stay for winter, then they get up and move for the hundredth time in their life, not a big deal. Most of these settlers have aged well into adulthood before they came to your settlement, so I assume they have alternative means of not dying every winter. There's probably quite a few more options for housing in winter, since theoretically, raiders and ghouls also get cold. There should be places on the outskirts of their territiories that are easy game in summer but which raiders would fair as well as Napoleon trying to invade in winter.

 

So you really don't have a lot of incentive to commit to elaborate housing arrangements until you know for certain that your settlement is a success

 

Meanwhile, In places like Diamond City, Covenant, Warwick Homestead, and the The Castle where people actually have (presently or in the past) been living in one place for a long period of time, you see that substantial housing arrangements have been taken into consideration.

 

 

 

As for your concerns about food and water.... Tomatoes (tatos,) corn, wheat, berries (mutfruit,) and gourds can all be preserved relatively easily. And frozen water can be unfrozen by heating it, which changes absolutely nothing because you'd have to boil all your water anyway in order to avoid the You Have Died Of Dysentery end screen.



That said I still have no idea why people even bother building their own shelters when the world is full of abandoned houses that for some reason still have their paint jobs after 200 years.

Edited September 3, 2016 by TheSpaceShuttleChallenger

[Moraelin]

Well, dunno about frost, but it gets my goat to see settlers sleepin in wet beds, with the water raining right on top of their bed from the huge holes in the roof above. Forget about raiders. Just pneumonia would get half of them.

 

(In the voice of Walther of Jeff Dunham fame.) Build a frikken roof, you morons! We have the technology. And I know they can get on the frikken roof. I've SEEN them chill out on the roof all the time. Oh, I've seen them. Hell, even old Mama Murphy is chilling out on the roof half the time. Well, fix the fikken roof while you're there! Someone throw her a hammer and some planks already!

 

Now seriously, it makes me wonder why I'm interefering with natural selection. The raiders are smart enough to sleep in some interior space, like Corvega, or BADTFL or whatever, if there's space. Hell, even supermutants are smart enough to move into some concrete building like Fallon's or the hospital. Only my settlers, oh noes, they can't even use an existing basement like the one already existing in Sanctuary Hills. By Jove, they can't sleep unless it rains in their bed.

 

So why am I helping the stupid out-compete the smart? It feels like I'm single-handedly ensuring an Idiocracy type future. I can just about see them, two generations down the line, watering the crops with Nuka Cola, 'cause it's got electrolytes, and the plants must love those.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

To be fair, the game's happiness calculator does halve the settler's bed-related happiness (20% instead of 40% satisfactoin) if the bed in question isn't placed under a roof. Granted, I'm not sure I agree with the game on all the things that are considered a "roof." And there's no accounting for the settlers standing in the middle of a bog in the pouring rain.

But I mean. Skyrim's AIs went out to chop wood during a dragon attack. So this isn't so bad.

[Moraelin]

Well, that's kinda the whole point: wth use is a roof, if you have just a wire-frame of a roof left above the bed?

 

And they don't even need some high-end technology to patch it. Just fix some cloth up there for example, so the water slides down on it. Or pile up some hay, from the razorgrain, or just some dry grass. Tribes in the jungle did figure out how to thatch a roof.

[tartarsauce2]

wait
YOU MEAN THE BED COMMENT WASN'T OFF-HAND FLUFF?
anyways, maybe they quantum evolved into rainproof peasants
but yeah one notices just how huge the level of exposure those people in diamond city have over on the north end of the city (entrance being southwest end)
but in case the internal city relations are different, the ones "WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD"
hahaha

if one could do a reasonable season simulation involving the passing of time, (reasonable for gameplay) then it could be interesting, instead of as many ghouls you see more bears, or fewer
you could do it so that spring has the dogs, summer has the deathclaws, fall has the ghouls "haunt well spooky pupper" and winter has the synths or something coming out en masse, or at least more often - and their opposite makes them less often

while in the cold any human has like, a -2 agility, +1 or -1 perception (snowstorm or snowy day?), -1 endurance -1 intelligence
would make certain things a lot easier, perhaps their perception goes down but the aggro radius heightens, shots made in the cold snowy lands tend to be a lot more audible

people tended to make burrows for themselves, with a slight elevation above-ground as well

The Kekuli or Pit House

For more than 3,000 years, some of the aboriginal peoples of British Columbia’s southern interior used pit houses for their winter homes.

http://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/visit/exhibitions/first-peoples-galleries

two shots of one from different angles (from the same museum) - I've seen it, it's an old attraction, so it's not just any new thing - they're dug in a way where you need to use a ladder to get in and out basically
http://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/images/Visit/2013sl0226100-104_HDR-e1363630469982.jpg

http://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/sites/default/files/styles/featured_collection_thumbnails/public/featured-collections/images/loghouse-300x270.jpg?itok=C7auzB6y

and it's not exclusive to north america, the above ground stuff one sees in africa and the americas was ALSO done by europeans at times (the interviewer is lindybeige as per the channel name) - these people were completely isolated in 1977-8 (volunteers lol) living in iron age lifestyle, not fake iron age lifestyle, but actual lifestyle, because that's all the tech they had access to

Edited September 3, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[Moraelin]

Well, considering that I ended up making a mod to make rain more rare, just so I don't have to see soaked idiots sleeping in soaked beds... yeah, it's been bothering me a lot. It wasn't just an offhand comment.

 

That said, yeah, making a frikken house to keep the elements out is actually even older than our species. The oldest house discovered is 600,000 years old, i.e., about 3 times older than Homo Sapiens even existed. It was apparently made by Homo Erectus, which, honestly, was just one step more advanced than chimps. We had two more species on the road from there to us, without counting the offshoot that were the Neanderthals. And which could also make a hut or tent, or dig a hole in the ground.

 

The oldest remains of what, well, what looks like an adobe house with some 6 inch thick wooden posts holding it up, is from 8500 BC. Forget iron age, that's STONE age.

 

The oldest pit dwelling we found, since you mention those, is about 15,000 years old. Again, that's stone age. It's not even neolithic, it's upper paleolythic. I.e., those guys not only didn't have even iron tools, they didn't even have fancy polished stone tools. The highest tech they had were rough flint shards.

 

So, yeah, even frikken contemporaries of the Flintstones :wink: knew better than just to sleep in the rain :tongue:

 

Edit: but to get back to the point, basically, WTH, the Beth dwellings are just stupid. If you know how to make a timber frame with some planks in between, you don't need high tech to just plaster some adobe on that. It's not like, oh no, the last adobe factory was bombed, and nobody knows any more how to plaster some earth over the wood :tongue:

 

And for a roof, at the bare least you can just pile some dry grass or hay over it. No fancy technology needed. Or just spread some cloth. If you want to get fancy, you can also use some paint or tar on it, and have a seriously waterproof roof.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Moraelin

[tartarsauce2]

Well, considering that I ended up making a mod to make rain more rare, just so I don't have to see soaked idiots sleeping in soaked beds... yeah, it's been bothering me a lot. It wasn't just an offhand comment.

fair enough, I was actually talking in regards to other person's comment about the game mechanics actually mattering in that way

I honestly thought it was just "talking"

 

but also, well, I was just thinking about this earlier after I made the post, how many people in contemporary society would know how to make tar and pitch, what IS tar and pitch?

is it boiled sap with charcoal, I know about the sticks being inter-twined with mud on them as wattle and dab but I dunno, it seems, difficult for people to do maybe

still, by the time of the setting it HAS been like 200 years, and fallout 1 had some more advanced buildings tbh

 

you know... now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind seeing a mod that starts not that far after the thing, with different various things regarding how to survive in such a situation

it'd have to change the nature of the game a fair bit, stuff would be more common, but losing it should be as well, more enemies, lower grades, law and order might've disappeared in the usual sense but there's still a larger semblance of the old order than there is in 2287

ghouls would be an insta-mutated version of people exposed to FEV + the nuke, super mutants could be really rare, but the game could be balanced around the premise that they're brutal as all hell

like, instead of having super mutants as a jokey wannabe power armour grunt, have them as raging monstrous behemoth type stompface insta-orcs, that tend to be around in more enclosed areas, or with the ghouls

 

then have power armours and the gunners/BoS as the joint military operations trying to keep things in control, and even have an element where you're setting up the institute

 

As a coda, there is a final vignette depicting the ecological aspects of the war: seabirds and fish succumb to the poisonous fallout, and a shark evades death only through moving to particularly deep water, where, it is noted, the shark was "very hungry that season."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz#.22Fiat_Homo.22_.28Let_There_Be_Man.29

I'm not ashamed to use this as an example, since it's basically the starting point origin for modern science fiction I was told, but also fallout owes almost everything to it in a sense

the brotherhood of steel origins are basically the leibowitzian order, and the followers of the apocalypse too, and the nomads/texarkana (tribals, caesar's legion / NewCaliforniaRepublic, new vegas) elements are... well I just showed you where it all stems from

 

supermutants? ghouls? hah. again, from this book

ATOM BE PRAISED!

In the novel, the city of New Rome has been captured and allowed to decay by the Empire of Texarkana, led by the emperor Filpeo Harq. The Papacy, in exile from New Rome, now resides in the city of Valana. The story chronicles the plan of a cardinal-deacon and his closest allies to unite the remaining independent nations in North America against the Empire, and to restore power to the Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Leibowitz_and_the_Wild_Horse_Woman

Edited September 3, 2016 by tartarsauce2