A Communal Letter to Bethesda Softworks LLC

[jesusismyairbag]

some people are just never satisfied, give it a rest man.

oh, and if you do somehow think its a good idea to send this off, sign with your proper name.

[hipolipolopigus]

some people are just never satisfied, give it a rest man.

oh, and if you do somehow think its a good idea to send this off, sign with your proper name.

I spent a while trying to figure out how to word this nicely. A long while.

 

While I haven't personally experienced all 500 known issues with Skyrim (Are you content with that many with a game that you just spent 60 USD on?), I know that a lot of people are experiencing a lot of them. Are you saying that we should just let Bethesda have our money and just take what they give us?

 

Would you not be upset if a new TV that you just purchased could barely turn on? If you purchased a new sports car that turned to dust before you could even revel in its' true glory? If you purchased a house just for it to be condemned and falling apart around you? Sure, it's not as much money as any of those things, but it's money nonetheless. Call me a scrooge, pathetic, poor, whatever. I appreciate the value of my money. If this was almost any other kind of product, we'd be expecting a refund. But we can't. Steam doesn't do refunds and good luck returning it to any store once it's open. So we have to wait. Wait and tell Bethesda what they need to fix and what they need to let happen (The LAA fix that fixed many issues which is now harder to get working. Not impossible, just harder. At least until they stop that.).

 

/Rant

 

Now please leave :happy: Your presence displeases Vedviing :wink: (The name is to show my fandom, appreciation of the Dovah language, and what I feel my Dovah name would be if I could choose it! Oddly, this has given me an idea for tamable/nameable dragons. So thanks for that, I guess. Still :ermm: )

Edited December 1, 2011 by hipolipolopigus

[darthsloth74]

What worries me is if you look at the credits to a game such as Fallout New Vegas, yes I know its by Obsidian but Bethsoft paid them. I counted about 6-8 people in QA Testing.

 

Compare that to around 65 people in Batman Arkham Asylum. There may also be bugs in that game but I haven't seen them, they aren't in my face bugs, backward flying Joker's and Harley Quinn's.

 

Then consider that Batman is not on Steam, but New Vegas and Skyrim is. See a pattern here?

 

Whether you care for the Steam service or not I think it allows developers to be very lazy in terms of QA and making sure a game is as finished as can be for release. Steam has become an excuse for developers who want to adopt the attitude of "Release now, make money. Patch, update fix later. If ever".

 

I own 2 of the recent Total War games, Empire and Napoleon and this kind of behaviour is not just specific to companies like Bethesda. The problem is that patches tend to break more than they fix and due to the Steam system its never fixed until the next update.

 

Its also interesting to note that games that don't have invasive DRM like the recent X3 games and Sins of a Solar Empire have increased sales and are successful in their own right simply because they don't dick their customers around as much. Of course it could be worse it could be a Ubisoft game where you're forced to be permanently online to play it,lose connection and the game exits. I used to think they were a good developer but I don't buy their products anymore for this reason.

[agno]

I'm withholding my venom until hackers identify another bethesda backdoor rootkit.

 

and there is one, but the rules of the game are you cant say you believe it without

proof. and the rootkits found in oblivion and bioshock dont count for skyrim.

 

so I gotta wait until the rootkit I know is in my system gets ID'd and probably

by lulzsec.

[hipolipolopigus]

What worries me is if you look at the credits to a game such as Fallout New Vegas, yes I know its by Obsidian but Bethsoft paid them. I counted about 6-8 people in QA Testing.

 

Compare that to around 65 people in Batman Arkham Asylum. There may also be bugs in that game but I haven't seen them, they aren't in my face bugs, backward flying Joker's and Harley Quinn's.

 

Then consider that Batman is not on Steam, but New Vegas and Skyrim is. See a pattern here?

 

Whether you care for the Steam service or not I think it allows developers to be very lazy in terms of QA and making sure a game is as finished as can be for release. Steam has become an excuse for developers who want to adopt the attitude of "Release now, make money. Patch, update fix later. If ever".

 

I own 2 of the recent Total War games, Empire and Napoleon and this kind of behaviour is not just specific to companies like Bethesda. The problem is that patches tend to break more than they fix and due to the Steam system its never fixed until the next update.

 

Its also interesting to note that games that don't have invasive DRM like the recent X3 games and Sins of a Solar Empire have increased sales and are successful in their own right simply because they don't dick their customers around as much. Of course it could be worse it could be a Ubisoft game where you're forced to be permanently online to play it,lose connection and the game exits. I used to think they were a good developer but I don't buy their products anymore for this reason.

This is more of the kind of input I'm looking for :thumbsup: I suspected corporate greed was interfering with quality... Adding to the "Steam-Attitude" as we'll call it, Bethesda have a history of this behavior anyway. What really grinds my gears is that there's no way to return these games at all. Steam won't issue refunds and game stores won't/can't take them back because of piracy-paranoid corporates. Let's talk about piracy, shall we? Before I could afford to simply get a game whenever I wanted, I would make sure it was worth it by getting it less-than-legally. Yes, sue me. Go on. I dare you. If I liked the game, I went out of my way to buy it. If not, I removed it. I was a good pirate. I supported companies that didn't kick me in the balls with disappointment. The DRM never failed to let pirates through. Ubisoft made it difficult by comparison and still got shot down. The only thing DRM hurts is legitimate customers.

 

Honestly, wishing I did this with Skyrim right now.

Edited December 1, 2011 by hipolipolopigus

[darthsloth74]

What I think is more important is to note that Steam does not deter piracy. I don't condone piracy since I believe in supporting developers by buying their products.

 

However one has only to go into Google and type "crack, rar, torrent" etc for whatever game so clearly the deterant is not working as planned. So what is the apparent value of Steam? I'm left wondering given some user stories on the net.

 

Is it a way for developers to update the beta versions of the games they release in an easy manner to the majority of the community? Or is the truth that Steam is an insidious form of spyware that does nothing but slow down your computer and upload personal or private information on your activities to Valve and the game developers?

 

After the recent auto patching of Skyrim despite my Steam account being set to offline, I'm wondering if my security has been breached and Steam decided to have a peek around my system. That sort of behaviour is not acceptable under UK law.

[hipolipolopigus]

What I think is more important is to note that Steam does not deter piracy. I don't condone piracy since I believe in supporting developers by buying their products.

 

However one has only to go into Google and type "crack, rar, torrent" etc for whatever game so clearly the deterant is not working as planned. So what is the apparent value of Steam? I'm left wondering given some user stories on the net.

 

Is it a way for developers to update the beta versions of the games they release in an easy manner to the majority of the community? Or is the truth that Steam is an insidious form of spyware that does nothing but slow down your computer and upload personal or private information on your activities to Valve and the game developers?

 

After the recent auto patching of Skyrim despite my Steam account being set to offline, I'm wondering if my security has been breached and Steam decided to have a peek around my system. That sort of behaviour is not acceptable under UK law.

Nor do I, but I don't really want to waste the little money I have on worthless trash that's just going to sit on my shelf, you know?

 

With Steam, there is the update management thing, but it's also the time-lock thing. Skyrim couldn't have a crack before its' release because Steam kept a firm, secure grip on the keys to decode the binaries.

 

Really? Steam updated offline? If that's true, I'd definitely consider reporting that. Maybe have a look at Steams' EULA? Does it have anything on offline mode?

Edited December 1, 2011 by hipolipolopigus

[XxTaLoNxX]

 

With Steam, there is the update management thing, but it's also the time-lock thing. Skyrim couldn't have a crack before its' release because Steam kept a firm, secure grip on the keys to decode the binaries.

 

Really? Steam updated offline? If that's true, I'd definitely consider reporting that. Maybe have a look at Steams' EULA? Does it have anything on offline mode?

 

Actually Skyrim was hacked and cracked two days before release. I know this because of a friend who torrents games before he buys them. And no that IS NOT me pretending to be my own friend, I am not forever alone. Anyway, he called me up and was like, "Hey bro come over I have something awesome to show you, and we can smoke a joint and play some games." So naturally I went over there and lo and behold he had a trollface mask on and was playing Skyrim on November 9th.

[darthsloth74]

From some reports I read it doesn't appear to work putting Steam into offline mode. If you make the mistake of starting Skyrim while connected to the net the autoupdate switch resets itself and starts the update behind your back. Some people have suggested this command is hidden somewhere in the exe or something. Obviously I'd like to know more before I took it as gospel, but it would explain a lot.

 

I wouldn't mind but I'd reverted to the original version because I got better performance and stablity namely because of LAA, its entirely my choice which version I can choose to run. Also I don't like the step backwards, initially you can run the game without Steam via the exe, then the sneaky swines stealth update the game with DRM and the option goes out of the window, oh but hey it was fine originally. So what are they saying it should have been included from the beginning so we'll force it on you all. Disgraceful behaviour.

 

Please don't misunderstand all Beth games are flaky but Skyrim is a complete joke. 512 plus bugs reported so far. They should have given it another 6 months and thorough testing. Thank God for Windows 7 and being able to revert to previous versions. Skyrim is a good game despite its issues but unfortunately Beth will just end up crippling it further with every new "patch".

 

Release the CK, don't do any more bad updates and let those talented people who did the Unofficial Oblivion patches fix this broken game because at least they have the time, dedication and knowhow to do it. Who knows maybe they could find the problems to some of the Xbox360 and PS3 quest issues if they were given the tools.

[hipolipolopigus]

From some reports I read it doesn't appear to work putting Steam into offline mode. If you make the mistake of starting Skyrim while connected to the net the autoupdate switch resets itself and starts the update behind your back. Some people have suggested this command is hidden somewhere in the exe or something. Obviously I'd like to know more before I took it as gospel, but it would explain a lot.

 

I wouldn't mind but I'd reverted to the original version because I got better performance and stablity namely because of LAA, its entirely my choice which version I can choose to run. Also I don't like the step backwards, initially you can run the game without Steam via the exe, then the sneaky swines stealth update the game with DRM and the option goes out of the window, oh but hey it was fine originally. So what are they saying it should have been included from the beginning so we'll force it on you all. Disgraceful behaviour.

 

Please don't misunderstand all Beth games are flaky but Skyrim is a complete joke. 512 plus bugs reported so far. They should have given it another 6 months and thorough testing. Thank God for Windows 7 and being able to revert to previous versions. Skyrim is a good game despite its issues but unfortunately Beth will just end up crippling it further with every new "patch".

 

Release the CK, don't do any more bad updates and let those talented people who did the Unofficial Oblivion patches fix this broken game because at least they have the time, dedication and knowhow to do it. Who knows maybe they could find the problems to some of the Xbox360 and PS3 quest issues if they were given the tools.

Hm... Interesting... This I why I use the original EXE, too. They haven't fixed anything worth upgrading for :facepalm: :rolleyes:

 

You know what really should have been included? LAA. It's a simple yes/no drop down box in Visual Studio;

 

No excuse to not enable it.

 

6 months with their QA staff, maybe. I bet we've found more bugs than BethSoft's QA xD

 

I agree, release the CK and stop using the excuse of "Making it better". We saw what your idea of "better" was with 1.2, BethSoft.

Edited December 1, 2011 by hipolipolopigus