The future of modding and steam

[ICERAY2000]

...and here I thought 9/11 changed everything...

[Handofbane]

Not trying to sound like a "Steam apologist" here, but most of the complaints directed at Steam can be attributed to two main things - 1) how Steam was 8 years ago, 2) Steamworks. If this were 2003, then yes many of the issues with how invasive it was were actually a problem then, but after massive upheaval among their users Valve actually listened and stripped the more privacy-damaging parts out, converting it to close to the state it is today, making nearly all parts optional (including ads), with the only real requirement being logging in once online to activate games, then setting to offline mode and being able to just run the games even with no internet from there on out. Steamworks is another animal completely, though its use can be blamed more on developers than purely Valve - after all, its functions only actually work when it is integrated with the games' base exe to track usage, prevent modification to the exe, and so on (VAC is similar but only relates to multiplayer games, not single player).

 

The decision to use Steamworks in Skyrim is mainly on Bethesda's head, Valve themselves has not ever forced any developer into a position of "you will use this or we will not host you". The terms of the Steam Workshop are a bit worrying because of how they are worded, and some people do have rose-colored glasses on about it, but until we all get more information, NONE of us can do more than speculate, for negative or positive. If the Workshop becomes so integrated that nobody can mod without uploading to them for approval, and it causes problems for exterior sites like the Nexus, then we will see major backlash against both Bethesda and Valve. If the terms are modified to allow for us to continue on our merry way as-it-is without requiring uploads or injecting itself in ways unnecessary now, then things should be mostly fine. One thing worth noting is the Steam Workshop terms were originally written with only Team Fortress 2 in mind - which happens to be a Valve game, meaning they themselves plan to make all the money off it. This crossways deal with Bethesda may well need lawyers from both of them to sit down to work out what needs to change in the terms so that Bethesda suddenly doesn't lose all rights to their own Creation Kit because Valve decides they want to make a few extra bucks off it.

 

As I said earlier, it has the potential to get out of control, but with this much warning we can raise the red flags to get them addressed before this whole mess goes live. At least it is not EA's Origin - we got to see just how they treat their customers' privacy with that whole deal where their software was caught scanning files it had no business being anywhere near, the nation of Germany itself complained (such things are outright illegal there), and in response EA simply rewrote their EULA to be shorter, leaving in the "you agree to let us datamine you anyway we please" bit, ignoring the legal complaint of an entire government. Valve with Steam at least pays attention to that kind of thing and does have launchers/hosts differentiated based on where in the world the user is logging in from (which sucks in some ways, but legally some nations are not allowed certain content within games - IE: no swastikas in Germany, no kid killing in other nations, etc).

[capnfnx]

Handofbane you are correct in that it was Beths choice to go with steam. As far as control of the CK how much control does steam have over the game itself at this point? The red flags should be up, no we don't know how this is going to play out but if they hear us now maybe it won't be as bad as it could be. A backlash from a large community hopefully will be unnecessary, it shouldn't be, even if we are only 12% of Beths market, lose 12% of millions and millions of dollars not a good plan. I really am only trying to point out some facts, the facts themselves have the potentiel to turn out badly for modders and mod lovers regardless of payment to or from. Regardless of how you put together a mod it is the intellectual property of the game developer and technically theirs to do with as they see fit and that IS what the lawyers will tell you as they point out the EULA on the game. I'm not saying it is an absolute that we are screwed but (nip it in the bud) hopefully Beth is listening for the future'

[Handofbane]

Being 12% of the market isn't really the important part. The part being overlooked a bit is that we, the PC users, are 100% of the modding market that will use the Creation Kit. This entire bit of software is completely irrelevant to console users, as they will not be able to mod or use mods (beyond official DLC) now, or likely ever with how tightly Microsoft and Sony hold that deathgrip on their content release packages. And, as many others have pointed out, there are people who specifically bought the console version to start, and were waiting on the Creation Kit to launch (as well as many mods to be made) before they picked up the PC version - a guaranteed second sale, likely at full price, which is put at risk if they screw it up too badly.

 

Hopefully this kind of thing is actually being discussed over at Bethesda HQ, and they aren't just blindly charging forward like they did with so many other bits and pieces of the game.

[capnfnx]

If they hear us they are discussing it, they hear the kaching, kaching of the cash register best.

If we just continue as blind consumers we cannot or should not be surprised at the bag of crap we get sold by any provider of goods or services. We are in too much of a hurry to have!

Edited December 3, 2011 by capnfnx

[capnfnx]

Tibersptm pointed out that I was wrong on some of my "legal" points, I would like to thank him for that.

Even if the end result may be the same in a court of law or the lack there of for money to hire a good crew of lawyers.