make our own creation software

[masamune30]

your probobly right about "dont be hasty", we shouldnt start until we know other people are willing to help

 

as for making our own scripting language, im starting to like the sound of it due to the ability to keep people that make the mods from accessing things it shouldnt on the computer of somone who uses a mod. yeah theres ways to limit lua and stuff but it would be safer to make our own.

 

as for potential structure of the language my main priority would be simplicity, we dont want modders to need a week to figure out how to run it. one thing to look at for ideas i also found while i played gmod, if youv ever played with wiremod you know expression2. that was an extremely simple thing to learn. took me a few days to get to more advanced things. im not saying we use it but somthing about as simple as it is.

 

as a side note to anyone reading this, im constantly editing the OP with sumaries of whats going on so far so try to check it over every now and then

 

and anyone reading this who has an opinion, as long as its not going to get this topic locked or start a debate completly unrelated to the topic i ecourage you to post it, be prepared to face criticism as the internet is a harsh and cruel place to be.

Edited December 4, 2011 by masamune30

[Sunnie]

I keep seeing comments about Steam this and Steam that.. the only thing they said that at will be integrated into the CS is a publish feature that does a one touch package and upload to Steamworks. All this mindless speculation about how Steam is going to ruin the CS is just laughable. The cold hard truth of the matter is this, nobody that can speak about it knows what features are going to be included in the CS, nobody.

 

I also don't buy into all the speculation of how the CS will be full of Steam DRM. You need the game in order to use the CS, which already has all of the DRM in it, and you need the game to use anything produced with the CS. And those of you who are now going to come back with the tired old pirate story, save it. The pirates aren't going to be stopped by DRM embedded in the CS, just how it doesn't even slow them down for playing the game. I really doubt Bethesda is going to waste what it costs to embed more DRM in a free tool that will be probably be easily distributable.

 

But back on topic...

 

@OP...

i am not doing this out of pure impatience, im doing it to make a point to bethsda and other gameing companies and so i can become a better programmer personaly.

 

I can understand wanting to become a better coder, and if that's the reason you want to do this project then more power to you!

 

However, what "point" are you trying to make? You do realize that Bethesda doesn't care one bit about any tool that is made that might compete with their toolset, it doesn't even register on their radar. So again, what point are you trying to prove? Sorry, I just can't fathom where you are going with this one. :blink:

[Ghogiel]

I really doubt Bethesda is going to waste what it costs to embed more DRM in a free tool that will be probably be easily distributable.

 

You will be required to have steam installed to install the CK.

[satsujinka]

as for making our own scripting language, im starting to like the sound of it due to the ability to keep people that make the mods from accessing things it shouldnt on the computer of somone who uses a mod. yeah theres ways to limit lua and stuff but it would be safer to make our own.

 

as for potential structure of the language my main priority would be simplicity, we dont want modders to need a week to figure out how to run it. one thing to look at for ideas i also found while i played gmod, if youv ever played with wiremod you know expression2. that was an extremely simple thing to learn. took me a few days to get to more advanced things. im not saying we use it but somthing about as simple as it is.

 

Lisp was actually a pretty good suggestion. At least if you use/create a Scheme dialect, the structure is dead simple: (function var1 var2 .. varX)

Speaking of which, I have some experience writing a Scheme interpreter (in Haskell, but it wouldn't be too hard to do in another language.)

 

Otherwise, I'd be plenty happy to help once you've gotten the file access code in working condition (I really dislike working with file formats...) I have no true language restriction, but C-like is a plus.

[RenownedWolfman]

I really doubt Bethesda is going to waste what it costs to embed more DRM in a free tool that will be probably be easily distributable.

 

You will be required to have steam installed to install the CK.

 

Since we need steam to have skyrim thats not much of a problem.

[Sunnie]

I really doubt Bethesda is going to waste what it costs to embed more DRM in a free tool that will be probably be easily distributable.

 

You will be required to have steam installed to install the CK.

 

You already have it installed for the game, so I don't see what the deal is. All you do is click a selection and Steam adds it to your Skyrim install, in the right place, in the right way. Hell, with that we may see a lot less threads about how they can't get the CS to work.

[masamune30]

as for making our own scripting language, im starting to like the sound of it due to the ability to keep people that make the mods from accessing things it shouldnt on the computer of somone who uses a mod. yeah theres ways to limit lua and stuff but it would be safer to make our own.

 

as for potential structure of the language my main priority would be simplicity, we dont want modders to need a week to figure out how to run it. one thing to look at for ideas i also found while i played gmod, if youv ever played with wiremod you know expression2. that was an extremely simple thing to learn. took me a few days to get to more advanced things. im not saying we use it but somthing about as simple as it is.

 

Lisp was actually a pretty good suggestion. At least if you use/create a Scheme dialect, the structure is dead simple: (function var1 var2 .. varX)

Speaking of which, I have some experience writing a Scheme interpreter (in Haskell, but it wouldn't be too hard to do in another language.)

 

Otherwise, I'd be plenty happy to help once you've gotten the file access code in working condition (I really dislike working with file formats...) I have no true language restriction, but C-like is a plus.

 

yeah your help would be great once we get the whole wall of hex issue sorted out, i personaly hate hex more than anything.

 

and to anyone debating steam, debate it on a debate steam thread, i welcome opinions but please try to stay on topic. were not here to argue.

remember this important fact:

this is a win-win situation for you, if bethsda finds out about this and decides to care they are more than likely to realize that us pc gamers know what were doing and not put in useless DRM that only impedes the legitimate player ( if we can make our own modding software we more than likely can make workarounds for steam, i have no intention of doing so myself but it is true if you look at the difficulty of the programming ).

and if they dont notice or care well you have yourself another set of modding tools that may or may not be easier to use than bethsda's and a backup just in case steam decides to screw up the CK.

nobody is forcing you to do any work on this project so dont complain about it, i cant see a single plausable wa it could affect you in a negative way.

[Ghogiel]

I know, it is bloody obvious. :psyduck:

[Roltak]

The interpretion code actually would be pretty simple, they only have 3 types of data, Groups, Records and Fields, so the hardest part would be:

a) getting a nif library that works on all the models

b) finding out what everything does exactly

c) build the interpreter for the new scripting language

 

Other than that it should be more tedious because of the number of Fields and Records then it should be hard. But well that was just after I had a look at the Definitions we know till now. So good luck with the project.

[nandchan]

c) can be done in a few dozen lines for a lisp-like language and a monadic parser (think haskell or LinQ)

 

@Sunnie:

 

The issue is not really the DRM (we're all legally entitled to own the game and all that), the issue is much more the fact that Bethesda wants to use Steam as a distribution platform for mods. This is a very, very bad sign - it's a sign that they want to start controlling our freedom, by tying us to such a horrible restrictive and infamous platform which is well known for being an enemy of your freedom. We're not fighting for our money, we're fighting for our rights.

 

I want the right to pay for and play a game without big brother watching over me constantly, I want to right to own products I pay for, I want the right to own the content I create. I don't want anything to have anything to do with Steam, as far as possible. I pay the game, I play it. If I need to circumvent steam (not by bypassing the game's DRM but by fooling Steam into thinking it's online), I will do so, because I don't want Steam interfering with what I choose to do within a game I legally purchased.