All my characters feel the same

[darthsloth74]

Pushkatu: Valid points definately. I for one don't like the current RPG handholding that Bethesda seem to be adopting. I think its a console thing but to be honest if I was a console owner I'd like to think Beth would credit me with more intelligence. This X marks the spot mentality is really rather insulting when the game should reward players who enjoy exploration.

 

Also while I was glad to see the horse and cart travel service put in, since thats very much Morrowind and the Stilt rider service. The game continually lets you use fast travel too. Most people miss out on the new random encounters simply because they can open the map and click on their previously visited location and move around the world like theres an airport in every location. I myself have been guilty of using fast travel too which breaks immersion and means you feel even more detached from the reality of your character and the world.

Edited December 4, 2011 by darthsloth74

[Blocky]

I read a handful of posts but call me crazy, I don't get it. The game is based on being a sandbox and letting you create the character you want to create. "Create" being the active word. You actively form the character that you want to play, it's not determined for you. If you want to play a classic mage, you don't equip melee weapons, you don't sneak, you don't equip bows, etc. If you want to play a standard rogue, you don't use magic spells, you don't use a two handed weapon, you don't use a shield, etc.

 

I leveled a classic mage to level 30. Deadly at ranged spells, squishy up close, horrible at sneaking. I play him a certain way. Then I started a new classic rogue character because I wanted a taste of melee stealth combat. It feels completely different. Deadly in melee stealth, ok at toe-to-to melee, and horrible at ranged. Poisons and blades are his go-to weapons. My mage and rogue are so opposite, because I play them as opposites.

 

If your characters all feel the same its because you're expecting the game to tell you what you can and can't do with your character. But this is more a sandbox... like all in the Elder Scrolls series.

 

Also if you put the difficulty to max then you will start the game being horrible at everything, just like Daggerfall and Morrowind lol. The character will only start to become decent in skills that they constantly use.

[Miraboreasu]

Play the Thieves guild or the Dark Brotherhood (or both) as a stealth character, but instead of plowing through everything, play gathering contracts (especially the thieves guild's minor contracts), and just have fun as a treasure hunter. Don't go jack of all trades, go rogue, and SPECIALIZE. Focus heavily on sneak, pickpocket, archery, speech, and put some minor points into one-handed, alchemy, and smithing. Argonian sounds GREAT for that.

 

Never dive too quickly into a long storyline unless you feel up to it, and instead explore dangerous areas you may be ill-equipped to handle. Avoid the main quest like the plague, and the moment you get your first shout, abandon it entirely. Play on Master difficulty to make it feel like you are inferior, and getting ganged up on is a death sentence.

 

Travel the world, stealing from who you please, and helping those who you feel deserve help.

 

THAT should give you a very specialized and very specific mode of play. Heck, the majority of your time wont even be spent dungeon-delving, mostly because it'll be too dangerous. It'll be spent around towns, and exploring underwater. Stalking marks from underwater, and using lakes to avoid the guards should be extra fun as well.

 

Your main goal is to get a nice house, a lover, and then work your way up the financial food chain until you own fully-built property in all of the holds, collecting rare trophies along the way.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Miraboreasu

[stars2heaven]

Hate to play devil's advocate here but I agree with one of the last posters. I don't get this, "I can't get into my character because everything about him isn't predetermined" either. I enjoy being able to grow into my character doing the things I like to do. It captures the very essence of what a RPG should be like in respects to character development. I do agree that the guilds should be more discriminating. It is kinda cheap that you can become the Arch mage but know very few spells.

 

Also, I like to play my thief as a Robin Hood type character, so I hate being forced to be such a thug in the thieves guild. But I still find a way to role play with it. If I think I am wronging a person who really doesn't deserve it I leave behind an apology in the form of gold or some other valuable to make up for it.

 

All in all, I don't find myself less able to immerse myself in this game than in Morrowind or Oblivion.

Edited December 5, 2011 by stars2heaven

[Miraboreasu]

Hate to play devil's advocate here but I agree with one of the last posters. I don't get this, "I can't get into my character because everything about him isn't predetermined" either. I enjoy being able to grow into my character doing the things I like to do. It captures the very essence of what a RPG should be like in respects to character development. I do agree that the guilds should be more discriminating. It is kinda cheap that you can become the Arch mage but know very few spells.

 

Also, I like to play my thief as a Robin Hood type character, so I hate being forced to be such a thug in the thieves guild. But I still find a way to role play with it. If I think I am wronging a person who really doesn't deserve it I leave behind an apology in the form of gold or some other valuable to make up for it.

 

All in all, I don't find myself less able to immerse myself in this game than in Morrowind or Oblivion.

Far more immersive than Oblivion, less so than Morrowind. You have more choices, but it still feels like you really don't.

[CasperTheLich]

i think you do have more choices then in oblivion too, and maybe nearly as much as morrowind had... with one exception. making a choice doesn't exclude you from making a second and opposite choice that you should no longer be able to make. IMHO as always. I guess morrowind was kind of like that too. however it was harder to work it like that. much harder.

[Vallen87]

IMO one of the main reasons that morrowind felt more immersive was because there was no easymode options in the game. And by easymode I mean fast travelling and that retarded arrow that tells you where to go all the time in Skyrim and Oblivion.

 

I reckon the best way to get immersed in this game is to turn off that quest guide so that you actually have to read the quest dialogue and not just say 'blablablablabla, follow the arrow' and install the mod that completely disables fast travel. This is why Morrowind is the best ES game.

 

As for your characters feeling the same, I would wonder how advanced your characters are (maybe you said already but I didn't read the whole thread) So far for me until you hit about lvl 35 or so you can do anything with magic or swords or bows but after then if you have 15 destruction and novice spells you don't even tickle the enemies with your entire mana pool.

 

In short I think characters don't become 'defined' until a much higher level as opposed to the other games where you had major skills starting at like 40-50 on level 1. Until you have your 6-7 main skills to rank 50 and the enemies are at your current level it feels like you can use any form of combat you choose.

[Karasuman]

A large part of this is the removal of attributes, racial abilities, and specific birthsigns. For example: previously, an athletic Argonian with high amounts of primarily Agility and Speed born under the sign of the Thief will move and behave very differently in combat (and just general exploration) than a Breton with high amounts of Intel and Willpower born under the sign of the Apprentice. In previous games, those are two very different types of characters, and while they *could* become quite proficient in the others' specialties, it took a fair bit of work, and they would never really be as good as the other in their respective chosen paths.

 

It might get overlooked, but the missing attribute that breaks immersion for me in Skyrim more than any other is Speed. How fast you move around (in and out of combat) had a significant bearing on certain character types imo. In Skyrim, everyone has the same rate of movement, and the only thing that really influences that is what kind of armor you have on (and perhaps your weight/stamina ratio, to a smaller degree). That doesn't make sense. People are different, and will move differently even under similar circumstances. Previous games reflected this. Skyrim does not.

 

In Oblivion, if you were that athletic Argonian with a lot of Speed, you were going to move quickly in and out of combat, and that makes sense for his character type. Similarly, if you were that Breton with intel and willpower, you could conceivably wear, say, heavy armor, but unless you had some feather spells or invested points in Strength, you would move slow enough that it might become unbearable, and again, that makes sense.

 

In Skyrim, everyone has the same rate of movement with only slight variations, and everyone can do everything proficiently from the get-go. They took out certain staple racial abilities such as the Breton +50 enhanced Magicka (which irritated me). By taking out attributes and Birthsigns, they removed a large part of what made characters in previous games feel different from one another, especially at the start of the game. Bethesda was banking heavily on the Perks system to make up the "difference", but it doesn't cover the lack of character progression nearly as much as Beth clearly has banked on.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Karasuman

[soot00]

Moredhel: Is it Morrowind or is it just a tendancy to see past happy memories through rose tinted spectacles?

Funny you mention that, I heard that quite a lot :D No, I really REALLY like Morrowind, it's the best game I've ever played! When I get tired of Skyrim or any other game that's gonna come out soon (SWTOR, ME3) I'll pick it up again and start all over using no mods at all.

 

Ahhhh, getting Fargoth's ring, getting killed by a cliffracer on my way to Balmora, being Lord Indoril Nerevar again :D

 

Fargoth my you bring back the memories he was such a loon, that crazy wood elf Glarthir in Oblivion's Skingrad reminded me of him, that was a great quest. For me it was Baldur's Gate 2 that I have true RPG nostalgia for, loved that game still do, still play it to this day.

 

Baldur's gate 2 was pretty awesome.

 

Frankly I never understood the love for Morrowind or Oblivion. Highest level I got to Morrowind was level 12 before it bored me to tears. Oblivion I got up to level 15ish, even bought Shivering isle expansion but never even went there, haha.

[darthsloth74]

Karasuman: Maybe speed is a factor. Argonians where always my favourite race to play, but its also the fact they had water breathing as a perk. In Skyrim no matter other race you play they all seem to be capable of remaining underwater for rather too long. In fact NPC's don't even seem to exhibit the ability to drown.

 

One quest I did was in a Smugglers cave and the main boss fell in the water and wouldn't die. I kept trying to shoot him with arrows but since I could only hit him when part of his body was above water he took about 35 minutes to kill. In Oblivion at least I could fight underwater. This kind of thing in Skyrim just broke the immersion for me and made me more detached from the game world and my characters role in it.

 

In regard to the comments others have left.

 

Miraboreasu: I've tried the rogue path and sneaking just seems broken to me as is the bounty system for stupid things like killing chickens. To be quite honest I got so irritated with the poor AI on missions that many a time it was easier to simply slaughter enemies than even attempt to sneak around.

 

Blocky: I know its a sandbox but there were restrictions in Oblivion and Morrowind. Its far to easy to dabble with other stuff in Skyrim. Plus I miss creating my own spells as a mage. This new mage is particularyl dull, at least they could have allowed multiple conjurations.

 

The problem with the game for me is most of the major questlines don't have any satisfactory outcome and for me thats a major immersion breaker. Completing the Dark Brotherhood questline, I'm Listener so people should be terrified at the mere mention of my name, but lets face it, it has no effect on how people view you. Even being the Dragonborn is a rather flat ending.