All my characters feel the same

[Karasuman]

This is pretty much my issue as well. Morrowind had an amazing flow, questing, storyline, and general gameplay as well as insane replayability. Yes, the graphics were pretty bad. Yes, the combat was almost laughable with the weird stiff jumping and chop chop melee. NPC movement and reaction was kind of weird.

 

There were a ton of different armor slots though so you could mix/match endlessly. The leveling and skill system allowed for a ton of different combinations and characters actually felt different because of it. My alchemist mage I spent 100's of hours on could simply not pick up a huge warhammer and do anything with it. She'd be swinging forever to even land a hit. This makes sense. She's a mage. To top it off, you could create your own spells and enchantments to feel even more personalized. In Skyrim, near as I can tell so far (haven't done a mage yet) for damage you have the choice of fire, ice, or lightning - that' it - 3 spells the whole game and they never actually improve so once you fill in perks that's it.

 

I actually took the plunge earlier in the week and added Morroblivion to Oblivion. I did this for two reasons: 1. Curiosity. I had always been curious about it, but I wasn't aware until recently that you could now get it in its complete form, as the last I had heard, Bethesda had put the clamps on the modders that were working on it, so naturally, I had to try it.

 

The second (and bigger) reason was I wanted to see if maybe my mind was just playing tricks on me. I thought, "Maybe I'm being too hard on Skyrim. Let's see how Morrowind does with an updated engine." Morroblivion is essentially a re-make of Morrowind (and its expansions) with newer tech added onto Cyrodiil, so I figured I'd put it to the litmus test.

 

And the result is: I'm having a blast with it, and Skyrim is already all but forgotten to me. Morroblivion is bamf. It confirmed what I suspected. It's not just mere nostalgia or rose-colored glasses. Morrowind is a great game made even better by Oblivion's more advanced engine. Almost all of the original quests, npcs, armor, etc are there, and I can't get enough. Much as I wanted to, I just never had that sort of awe factor with Skyrim.

 

P.S. - Being able to traverse freely between Cyrodiil, Elsweyr (with that mod), and Morrowind is f***ing sweet. Skyrim who?

[Brittainy]

Hmmm, going to have to have a peek at Morroblivion. ^ Thanks for mentioning it.

[soot00]

This is pretty much my issue as well. Morrowind had an amazing flow, questing, storyline, and general gameplay as well as insane replayability. Yes, the graphics were pretty bad. Yes, the combat was almost laughable with the weird stiff jumping and chop chop melee. NPC movement and reaction was kind of weird.

 

There were a ton of different armor slots though so you could mix/match endlessly. The leveling and skill system allowed for a ton of different combinations and characters actually felt different because of it. My alchemist mage I spent 100's of hours on could simply not pick up a huge warhammer and do anything with it. She'd be swinging forever to even land a hit. This makes sense. She's a mage. To top it off, you could create your own spells and enchantments to feel even more personalized. In Skyrim, near as I can tell so far (haven't done a mage yet) for damage you have the choice of fire, ice, or lightning - that' it - 3 spells the whole game and they never actually improve so once you fill in perks that's it.

 

I actually took the plunge earlier in the week and added Morroblivion to Oblivion. I did this for two reasons: 1. Curiosity. I had always been curious about it, but I wasn't aware until recently that you could now get it in its complete form, as the last I had heard, Bethesda had put the clamps on the modders that were working on it, so naturally, I had to try it.

 

The second (and bigger) reason was I wanted to see if maybe my mind was just playing tricks on me. I thought, "Maybe I'm being too hard on Skyrim. Let's see how Morrowind does with an updated engine." Morroblivion is essentially a re-make of Morrowind (and its expansions) with newer tech added onto Cyrodiil, so I figured I'd put it to the litmus test.

 

And the result is: I'm having a blast with it, and Skyrim is already all but forgotten to me. Morroblivion is bamf. It confirmed what I suspected. It's not just mere nostalgia or rose-colored glasses. Morrowind is a great game made even better by Oblivion's more advanced engine. Almost all of the original quests, npcs, armor, etc are there, and I can't get enough. Much as I wanted to, I just never had that sort of awe factor with Skyrim.

 

P.S. - Being able to traverse freely between Cyrodiil, Elsweyr (with that mod), and Morrowind is f***ing sweet. Skyrim who?

 

LMFAO, so basically you saying you need a heavily modded out game to enjoy <insert game here> to its fullest over a vanilla released version.

 

Your point again was what?

[CasperTheLich]

morroblivion is finally finished? i had no idea.

 

LMFAO, so basically you saying you need a heavily modded out game to enjoy <insert game here> to its fullest over a vanilla released version.

 

Your point again was what?

[/Quote]

 

you're joking right? i hope? in case you're not. you missed it completely.

*sigh* i'll just give up. i don't think i can explain it in a fashion you’d understand if you really don’t get it.

[Karasuman]

[

LMFAO, so basically you saying you need a heavily modded out game to enjoy <insert game here> to its fullest over a vanilla released version.

 

Your point again was what?

 

You being intentionally dense is cute, or maybe it's unintentional, but if my point was a train, it left the station and you certainly weren't on it. Let me explain again: Morroblivion is the entire game of Morrowind, updated with a more advanced (Oblivion's) engine. You can go to Morrowind and play the game just like you would've in the original. You don't need any other mods and you don't even have to set foot in Cyrodiil (or any other mod) if you don't want to. Ever. You don't have to use any other mods. Ever.

 

My point was that in my opinion, in and of itself, Morrowind's originality, options, plot, factions, etc are superior, but it of course runs on an engine distributed circa 2002. Updated with more advanced technology, it kicks Skyrim square in the nuts. That is only my opnion. If need be, I can explain that to you a third time if you still don't get it.

 

Hmmm, going to have to have a peek at Morroblivion. ^ Thanks for mentioning it.

 

Welcome. I can attest that it's pretty amazing and certainly worth a look.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Karasuman

[Seviche]

Sandbox games are like a big box of Lego. Some people can't make anything other than what the instructions say.

Way to miss the point. The game offers no real repercussions to choices the player makes. There's nothing the player can't do (except have both sides win the civil war by brokering a permanent peace) and that's what makes the game feel hollow. You're in charge of the Brotherhood of Assassins? Sweet, you can also run the Companions, The Mage's College, and help the Empire win the civil war after... well, after completing the Brotherhood line of quests. Nobody cares. You can be the Thane of all the cities... yet not the high King. You can wield more actual power than the High King of Skyrim and... it doesn't matter because you can't do anything with it.

 

It's not a sandbox game with real rules, it's a Mary Sue game when you are Teh Awesome Master of All and no choices you make, and no actions you take, really matter... because that would reduce your chances of feeling awesome. Or something. Being a "Sandbox Game" doesn't excuse the fact that the game doesn't treat you like a rational adult capable of making lasting decisions. I have my big boy pants on and I'd like to deal with the fact that I'm running the Mage's College and I don't really have time to run around as a neophyte Companion, or that I'm the head of the Brotherhood of Assassins and the Empire really isn't interested in my help with the civil war thing, seeing as how I killed... that one guy who was kinda important.

 

Honestly, the thing that made me laugh (and roll my eyes) the most was the "Trial" I did to become a full member of the Companions. I stealth-snipered my way through the mission and pretty much encountered only one spot of difficulty which required me to actually draw my sword. Upon return to Jorrvaskr, I was inducted with no issues, even after my chaperone Varkas had made multiple comments about his dislike for sneaking about and not killing stuff in fair combat. Yeah, that really made the whole thing feel epic... as I did exactly what he didn't like and then he talks me up to the other companions. Seriously? This is "Good Sandbox Gameplay^tm?" I should have been told "You're not really our type of warrior, but thanks for the help." That would have blown my socks off and felt EPIC.

 

So, to address you analogy, even Lego sets have a limit on pieces, and thus a limit on what you can build. Half the fun of building with Lego (or doing anything, really) is trying to work around the limitations, not being told "You don't have any limitations. Go nuts!" To look at it another way; which is more epic; a castle build without a limit on pieces, or a castle built around a limit on pieces. One require ingenuity and forethought. One requires that you just show up and everything is already there for you... no instructions required, but no real challenge either. I wonder which would be more interesting, more challenging, and more enjoyable?

Edited December 8, 2011 by Seviche

[abaris]

The game even force feeds you the mages college. If it was for me and my character, I never would have gone there, since I'm the stealthy type, never casting a spell. Yet you have to start the questline anyway, since there's no way around it, if you want to finish the main quest.

 

Why?

 

I don't want to. It feels wrong for my character. I lead the thieves and the brotherhood. I'm not interested in mages, mercenaries, soldering or rebelling. I'm not interested in being a Jack of all trades. What I would be interested in would be some kind of recognition of what I actually am.

 

Seviche is right. The limitless expansion of your character may feel right for the action player, it feels totally wrong for trying to get some kind of roleplaying feeling.

[CloudVvulf]

<snip>

 

So it's the game's fault you can't control yourself? You don't have to join every faction you can find, or do the main quest, or be the thane in every city, you choose to do that. You choose to make your character into a Mary Sue.

 

If Skyrim was "a castle build without a limit on pieces", you would be the one trying to use up all the blocks and sticking them everywhere, complaining 'cause you have an ugly castle.

 

Maybe you would prefer to play a more linear game instead. Different games suit different people.

 

To answer your Lego question; a castle build without a limit on pieces would be more epic.

[darthsloth74]

The big question I would like to address is that given a lot of people feel that the immersion is a problem how do we solve it?

 

Do we rewrite all the quests with multiple options?

 

Do we prohibit joining the mages guild if you are in the companions/fighters guild?

 

Do we reintroduce class restrictions?

 

Obviously this all relies on the CK and some talented modders. If I thought it could be done I would support removal of all the voice dialogue in the game in favour of the Morrowind system of non voiced conversations especially if it meant more options to roleplay.

[abaris]

The big question I would like to address is that given a lot of people feel that the immersion is a problem how do we solve it?

 

Do we rewrite all the quests with multiple options?

 

Do we prohibit joining the mages guild if you are in the companions/fighters guild?

 

Do we reintroduce class restrictions?

 

Obviously this all relies on the CK and some talented modders. If I thought it could be done I would support removal of all the voice dialogue in the game in favour of the Morrowind system of non voiced conversations especially if it meant more options to roleplay.

 

I would answer all your questions with a big fat YES! But I don't think its even a possibility, since the mage quest seems to be necessary for the main quest.

 

Other than that it would certainly feel more immersive, if your choices had some kind of meaning. Also you career choices. But that's of course as personal as it goes.