All my characters feel the same

[Seviche]

<snip>

So it's the game's fault you can't control yourself? You don't have to join every faction you can find, or do the main quest, or be the thane in every city, you choose to do that. You choose to make your character into a Mary Sue.

 

If Skyrim was "a castle build without a limit on pieces", you would be the one trying to use up all the blocks and sticking them everywhere, complaining 'cause you have an ugly castle.

Let's try something interesting, read THIS thread that I posted a few days ago that deals with how I play the game. Now, shush. You really don't know what you're talking about.

 

Maybe you would prefer to play a more linear game instead. Different games suit different people.

Again, way to completely miss the point. Skyrim does hold your hand (quest radar? I hate that), which you seem to think I want, but Skyrim also doesn't slap your hand for being naughty. There are no limits. None. I'm glad you enjoy playing a game that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter, but some of us want more interesting, dare I say deeper, interaction in a sandbox game. I shouldn't be able to kill someone and not have it matter. I mean seriously. Some of us like a challenge in our game other than "Teh Monstarz is hardar." Some of us actually like the "Being in the Brotherhood makes us a villain and we need to be very careful in town," as opposed to "I can strut through town in my 'fo shizzle Brotherhood gear 'cause I be representin" and the guards don't care."

 

It appears that you missed the "Box" part of "Sandbox." "Sandbox" means you're in a world and you have to deal with the rules within and prosper. A sandbox that doesn't have any rules isn't a sandbox at all. It's just sand. Sand is merely a beach and nobody goes to the beach for the sand unless they're 5. People are at the beach for the girls (or boys), the sun, and the water... unless they're professional sandcastle builders and they don't count because it's their hobby. They're like the modders. They make terrible stuff better. Like sand.

 

To answer your Lego question; a castle build without a limit on pieces would be more epic.

Great! We obviously have very different outlooks on life. I like a challenge.

[Blocky]

It still seems to me like Bethesda pulled off a big success with the game. it is huuuuuuuuge. I still haven't even started the main quest, only joined one faction, but my quest log is filled. There's an endless amount of stuff to do. I tend to be a graphics elitist at times (yes it's sad) and the game never fails to make me stop and stare at a scene once in a while. And the game is designed to be endlessly modded...

 

It could be better. Restrictions and/or requirements for joining factions! Skills that cancel out other skills (advanced heavy armor removing the option for sneak/marksman)! Different responses from NPCs based on race and gender! But at some point the game has gotta head out the door. My rogue and mage still feel completely opposite to me, not the same at all. A lot of these things will have to be modded in. But I don't think it's because Bethesda was lazy. It's because the game is huge, and you can't please everyone when it comes to features.

[abaris]

But I don't think it's because Bethesda was lazy. It's because the game is huge, and you can't please everyone when it comes to features.

 

That goes hand in hand. Quantity vs quality one might say.

 

There are many surprising and good things included. But the overall feeling is one of emptyness. You play a levelling bot and are surrounded by mindless bots. That's fun for a while, but as the OP said. Try a different character and its the same old song.

[CloudVvulf]

<snip>

So it's the game's fault you can't control yourself? You don't have to join every faction you can find, or do the main quest, or be the thane in every city, you choose to do that. You choose to make your character into a Mary Sue.

 

If Skyrim was "a castle build without a limit on pieces", you would be the one trying to use up all the blocks and sticking them everywhere, complaining 'cause you have an ugly castle.

Let's try something interesting, read THIS thread that I posted a few days ago that deals with how I play the game. Now, shush. You really don't know what you're talking about.

 

Yet none of your rules are "don't join factions that don't suit your character" or "only become a Thane in one city" so you can still make your toon a Mary Sue, you just don't run in heavy armour.

 

Maybe you would prefer to play a more linear game instead. Different games suit different people.

Again, way to completely miss the point. Skyrim does hold your hand (quest radar? I hate that), which you seem to think I want,

 

Actually, I don't think any of the linear RPGs I've played have quest arrows. Personally I don't really like quest arrows.

 

but Skyrim also doesn't slap your hand for being naughty. There are no limits. None. I'm glad you enjoy playing a game that you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter, but some of us want more interesting, dare I say deeper, interaction in a sandbox game. I shouldn't be able to kill someone and not have it matter. I mean seriously. Some of us like a challenge in our game other than "Teh Monstarz is hardar." Some of us actually like the "Being in the Brotherhood makes us a villain and we need to be very careful in town," as opposed to "I can strut through town in my 'fo shizzle Brotherhood gear 'cause I be representin" and the guards don't care."

 

Those aren't limits, those are consequences, which I am all for. A limit would be that you couldn't enter towns if you were in Shrouded gear. A Consequence would be that if you enter the town with Shrouded gear on, the guards attack you. Though half the guards seem to secretly worship Sithis anyway, they were probably assassins before they were all kneecapped. :pinch:

 

What people suggest to make characters "unique" is to place restrictions on things. For example, the "if you're in the Companions, you shouldn't be able to join the College of Winterhold". But what if I wanted to play a character that was a warrior and studied at the College to learn Restoration in order to help fallen comrades? Surely my Shield-Brothers aren't going to kick me out for preventing them from dying. You don't make the sandbox deeper by taking sand away, you make it deeper by adding more sand. To make characters more unique, you need more options, not less.

 

For example, making NPCs essential is a limit. You simply cannot kill them. All NPCs should be killable. I should be able to stab Maven Black-Briar in her ugly botoxed face and have the Thieves' Guild respond by kicking me out. There should also then be an option I could take so that, if I really wanted to rejoin the Thieve's Guild, I could win back their favour and continue their quests.

 

It appears that you missed the "Box" part of "Sandbox." "Sandbox" means you're in a world and you have to deal with the rules within and prosper. A sandbox that doesn't have any rules isn't a sandbox at all. It's just sand. Sand is merely a beach and nobody goes to the beach for the sand unless they're 5. People are at the beach for the girls (or boys), the sun, and the water... unless they're professional sandcastle builders and they don't count because it's their hobby. They're like the modders. They make terrible stuff better. Like sand.

 

To answer your Lego question; a castle build without a limit on pieces would be more epic.

Great! We obviously have very different outlooks on life. I like a challenge.

 

What my initial point was addressing was that people are doing the same things on different characters, then complaining that their characters feel the same. What people were failing to realise is that they can set the limits themselves, limits don't have to be in the game. To use my previous example, after you kill Maven and the Guild kicks you out, you can limit yourself and not try and win back favour with the guild.

 

I think the message you're getting isn't the message I'm trying to send.

 

No body plays in a sandbox unless they're 5 anyway :tongue:

 

EDIT: Holy epic post size Batman! :blink:

Edited December 9, 2011 by tiberius xxx

[abaris]

 

What my initial point was addressing was that people are doing the same things on different characters, then complaining that their characters feel the same. What people were failing to realise is that they can set the limits themselves, limits don't have to be in the game. To use my previous example, after you kill Maven and the Guild kicks you out, you can limit yourself and not try and win back favour with the guild.

 

 

Actually, no. You can't limit your character. Well, maybe to a certain point. But the mages are forced down your throat anyway if you're out to complete the main quest.

 

Well, for me that's a big deal because I never was interested in playing a mage in Elder scrolls games. The reason is, that magic simply doesn't feel like a profession in these games. It rather feels like an aside. And now we come again to the immersion thingy. That's obviously different for different people. But if that mage at Whiterun keeps repeating over and over that I should join the mages college, even if I already have, its kind of a breaker. Same goes for guards insulting a Thane with snide comments. Same with the robots repeating over and over their one and only line, so that you already give them a wide bearth only to avoid hearing it for the uptenth time.

 

The only challenge in this sandbox are the fights and maybe the locks to pick or traps to avoid. It offers nothing in the quest department, since interactions with certain groups are meaningless. You fulfill them and that's it. Maybe you get an initial pat on the back and some gold or item, but next time you're back to Joe/Jane Doe when meeting the same people again.

 

The most frustrating about it is the fact that there are things going on in this game. Random skirmishes between Imperials and Stormcloaks when you travel the roads. Folks fighting over thrown away gears and the likes. Its just, you have no part in it. For the NPC world, nothing you're doing gives you fame or infamy, if you leave the randon guard comment aside. The changing world doesn't effect the NPC population. Ulfric can lie dead in his hall and for them he's still alive and kicking.

 

That's why it feels the same. That's why its fun, but not immersive.

[sasukegor]

I think most of ppl here needs somethin like Sims-o-TES? :/

 

No one ever forces ppl to pick many professions. to learn everything. It's always ur choice. If u don like it so dont do it even if game has an option. ppl type about selling cooked stuff? what else u want? have a baby and build a house and put a tree? this is so funny lol

 

ya know as for me I enjoy dungeons here more then in any other game. Its not just enter kill and go out, it's more like enter > [maybe see some ppl doing somethin, lost somethin, looking for somethin] > ....................... > and then go out. So comments like "this game only offers dungeons" aint smart. what would u prefer? flying sky caves? spaceship caves? enter dragon mouth caves? Caves, castles, farms, rocks, forests... and places like that are only which can be there in ages like in Skyrim. you cant find super robot destroying world or crazy monkeys destroying cities... or this is not game to cook and sell to become rich, buy castle, hire cooks and cook even more to sell, but still u got smithing, mines, cooking (best for urself), alchemy which is made just great and YOU CAN SELL potions/posions and whatever else u can make there. I think this game is just great. 1 of 5 caves has some story in it (atleast 1 of 5) which makes me to want to check em all. quests are very interesting even if sort of short, but yea. Starting game all over is lame. first of all game is tooooo long if u do everything that's why I think they made it to be able to learn lots more then just 1 profession. lets say u become super professional warrior with heavy stuff, 1 handed sword and a shield. so you get it all on max possible level, upgrade all possible stuff for that 3 skills and would u really be sattisfied with that? I mean to do so mcuh and all u could have learnt is 3-5 skills (lets add two handed weps and light armor extra). I think in that case ppl would write here about not having enought to do for so long game. For those most bored once who HAVE TO PLAY second and more times there are mods you know. I didnt use any yet. atleast not for first run (dont think ill have more runs) but I've been reading today and there are some interesting ones. let u to make arrows. probly food u always want, smelt items, more quest.... more house... and all stuff what sims-o-tes players want, so dont waste your time and go get it xD

Edited December 9, 2011 by sasukegor

[Seviche]

<snip>

So it's the game's fault you can't control yourself? You don't have to join every faction you can find, or do the main quest, or be the thane in every city, you choose to do that. You choose to make your character into a Mary Sue.

 

If Skyrim was "a castle build without a limit on pieces", you would be the one trying to use up all the blocks and sticking them everywhere, complaining 'cause you have an ugly castle.

Let's try something interesting, read THIS thread that I posted a few days ago that deals with how I play the game. Now, shush. You really don't know what you're talking about.

 

Yet none of your rules are "don't join factions that don't suit your character" or "only become a Thane in one city" so you can still make your toon a Mary Sue, you just don't run in heavy armour.

Yes, because setting up artificial and self-imposed limitations on a character is totally different from setting up artificial and self-imposed limitations on a character. You're really going to argue that people who pronounce tomato differently are talking about different things? I take it you didn't get to the part of my post about behavior in-town and how to dress. Sounds like you didn't read the whole thing.

 

Those aren't limits, those are consequences, which I am all for. A limit would be that you couldn't enter towns if you were in Shrouded gear. A Consequence would be that if you enter the town with Shrouded gear on, the guards attack you.

A consequence IS a limit. It's a limiter on behavior. You really think they're different? Besides, your examples aren't exclusionary, they're complimentary. If the guards won't let you in, then you sneak in. If they catch you in town, they chase you. That's what I want. That's part of what we're saying. I shouldn't have to pretend that the guards give a crap. The guards should be programmed to give a crap, unless they have a valid reason to not care. Riften guards looking the other way makes some sense. Whiterun guards not caring makes no sense.

 

What people were failing to realise is that they can set the limits themselves, limits don't have to be in the game.

Sure they do. Limits show that the makers of the game realize that societies have limits and boundaries. Skyrim is a poorly designed simulation of a society that is plagued by civil war and dragons. The game has no limits beyond the math behind combat and making certain characters essential. "No limits" is not that same as "Good Design." In fact, one could easily argue that the quality and presentations of in-game limits showcase how well designed a game is. Limitations actually define a game. You shouldn't be able to

kill the Emperor's cousin in broad daylight and get off by paying a paltry cash sum.

That's a sign of a poorly designed system. Sure, the event was fun...

...except for the guard following me 1/3 of the way across the map and finding me even though I was stealthed... in the middle of a camp of foreswarn...

... but the aftermath didn't reflect the seriousness of the the actions. Should the player pretend that they're wanted forever in that town? Sure they can, but then none of the quests in-game take that into consideration and it can make a mess of the game. I'm sorry, but that's not freedom, that's poor design.

 

I think the message you're getting isn't the message I'm trying to send.

No, your message is loud and clear. You're fine with the game not setting any rational limits and it doesn't seem to bother you. That's great. You're getting your money's worth! We're somewhat unhappy that we have to pretend that things in Skyrim work in a manner that mirrors real life. It's hard to maintain a suspension of disbelief when you have to do all the heavy lifting, despite the fact that it's exactly why you're playing a fantasy game in the first place.

[thunderlord2200]

i have yet to play this game, but i miss games that gave u in-death quest, to the point it takes hrs to just get halfway threw, now its less then a min to get a lot of them done now. (ok i talk to person and they want me to talk and convince someone to stop and leave them along, 30 sec later that quest is done..) i dont think thats a quest. i like quest that get deep and other things. or u dont have to do a the main quest to injoy the game or a sub quest to keep the main going..

 

but i like and love being able to have a multy(SP) build system i love having a strong ass mage, but i can also use a huge sword if i need to, or ware GOOD armor, not saying heavy, im just saying good Enchanted armor.

 

 

but with all this bing said, this is a risen im waiting to get them game so modders can fix a lot of these issues.. FO3 i have oveer 20GB of mods in the game just to make it more enjoyabull. in fall out 3, u see slaves but u cant by any, WTF? if can kill everyone but kids. WTF if i want to Fully take over a area i want everyone dead.. xD

 

and i even had to fix the flat chated girls that had blocky bodys.. what the hel they can make great land scapes, but when it comes to bodys they cant pant them worth crap or look good... gha.. same thing in this game when it comes to the RPCs.. and ur costum char.

[CloudVvulf]

 

A consequence IS a limit. It's a limiter on behavior. You really think they're different? Besides, your examples aren't exclusionary, they're complimentary. If the guards won't let you in, then you sneak in. If they catch you in town, they chase you. That's what I want. That's part of what we're saying. I shouldn't have to pretend that the guards give a crap. The guards should be programmed to give a crap, unless they have a valid reason to not care. Riften guards looking the other way makes some sense. Whiterun guards not caring makes no sense.

 

Definition of a limit: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/limit

 

Definition of a consequence: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consequence

 

:ohmy: they are different!

 

No, your message is loud and clear. You're fine with the game not setting any rational limits and it doesn't seem to bother you. That's great. You're getting your money's worth! We're somewhat unhappy that we have to pretend that things in Skyrim work in a manner that mirrors real life. It's hard to maintain a suspension of disbelief when you have to do all the heavy lifting, despite the fact that it's exactly why you're playing a fantasy game in the first place.

 

No, you're missing it, and it's definitely on your end. I would try to explain it again, but I really can't be bothered repeating myself. I can only :wallbash: for so long.

[demonocus]

skyrim is an unfinished pile of crap that will only be halfway playable with a ton of mods and the fact that everyone keeps saying this game will be great in a few months/weeks or whatever proves it.and as long as we keep accepting this crap from bethesda we will keep getting crappier and crappier games till we get nothing but mod tools and no game at all just an empty world of great looking trees and water and we have to wait for the modders to make all the people and quests.if this was any other game people would be up in arms demanding bug fixes or money back etc.but for some strange reason TES gets away with it.

 

my point is people should start demanding better quality games instead of accepting garbage and saying oh well the modders will make it good