Dual wield pistols, at all?

[ZurinArctus85]

Something that makes me very upset angry about New Vegas is the game engine's superiority over Skyrim', and yet you can dual wield in Skyrim and not NV. They literally use the same engine, except Skyrim's variant is tweaked to use less GPU intensive visual effects. FNV= Depth of field, bloom, HDR, imagespace effects... Skyrim = Imagespace effects. Wat? There's a locked topic floating around on the Nexus servers regarding dual wielding and the FNV's engine limitations...and I have to strongly disagree. There's no way that you can't dual wield in FNV. People are complaining about "oh, it takes work, blah blah, animations meshes whine whine" I have a solution: mirror the meshes and animations. Not hard at all. I'd do it if I knew how. I'm an accomplished modder for Skyrim, weapons, armor sets, and a playable race...why is FNV so different?

[Darkneblade]

because it is rpg

[uhmattbravo]

"because it is rpg"

 

Not the issue at all.

 

 

""People are complaining about "oh, it takes work, blah blah, animations meshes whine whine" "

 

...so you're implying that people are just being lazy...

 

 

"I have a solution: mirror the meshes and animations. Not hard at all. I'd do it if I knew how."

 

...yet go on to claim that you both know and don't know how to make it happen...

 

 

" I'm an accomplished modder for Skyrim, weapons, armor sets, and a playable race...why is FNV so different?""

 

...and further go on to state that you have a foundation of knowledge to build off of that some others do not.

 

 

Skyrim's engine was put together with dual wielding in mind. It was a feature. Making dual wieldable weapons for Skyrim is as simple as choosing the correct options in the CK.

 

New Vegas's engine is not magic. It has limitations of it's own. Dual wielding for NV would be a workaround, not a base game feature.

 

And lastly, with the fact that you're an 'accomplished Skyrim MA', you should know better than jumping right to the gimme gimme what's wrong with you lazy people attitude.

[ZurinArctus85]

I wasn't intending to imply people were lazy, I was more intending to say that the option was pushed away too early.

[uhmattbravo]

It's hard to say. Personally, I just don't see it being able to be integrated in a way that would play well.

 

The most plausible way I could think of would be to make separate dual wield versions of weapons where there's a dummy version for the off hand as an armor add on but is actually counted as a weapon by the animation's text keys. Like (I want say) "love and hate" or other already dual wielded hand to hand weapons. The problem is you can't equip just one. You'd have like "lead pipes" and "combat knives", or even say, two pistols (I think with a little scripting and maybe NVSE to bypass the aim button and fire the dummy off hand version and remove a round from the pc, you could potentially get it to work), but the problem is it'd be hard to come up with a way to separate or combine weapons on the fly convincingly.

 

Sure you could use a weapon mod, but that can't be undone (without using WMX or something similar.) Or you could use a workbench recipe, but that isn't on the fly, you'd need to find a workbench. You could use a hotkey, but that can cause issues for some as well. (For example, I play mostly at night in bed while my wife's asleep, with an Xbox controller. The nightstand my monitor's on is too narrow to fit the keyboard, and she bumps keys when she rolls over if I keep it on my lap.)

 

Then there's the fact that you'd need to make countless compatibility patches for mod added weapons, all of which would need to be packaged with modified versions of the weapon mesh (for the off hand model) which would require the author's permission for each.

 

All in all, sure you could probably make a workaround, but it's doubtful it'd ever play as well or as seamlessly as it would if it were hard coded in like Skyrim's dual wielding.

[RoyBatterian]

They are not the same engine. They are based on gamebryo sure, but each has it's own features and limitations specific to the game it's for.

 

You can't just add new animations to Fallout 3 or New Vegas, it has a limited set of weapon animations. You can add some, but to cover all one handed weapons, probably not. You'll also run into problems with cloberring other mods that already use those slots. If hlp really gets update3d to work on the player instantly along with being able to set alternate animation directories in NVSE, then it will be possible to extend animations via script. Until then this limit is major hindrance to any such ideas.There is no code in the engine to handle firing projectiles from more than one weapon projectile node either. Otherwise someone would have modded the alien blaster to have 2 projectile nodes and alternate between or shoot from both of them by now. Also, how would weapon mods be handled, ammo use, reloading animations (same limits). Melee weapons might be feasible.

 

I don't see this as possible without some kind of engine extension to handle such things in an efficient manner.

 

If you want to dual wield, play some Borderlands 2.

[uhmattbravo]

There is no code in the engine to handle firing projectiles from more than one weapon projectile node either. Otherwise someone would have modded the alien blaster to have 2 projectile nodes and alternate between or shoot from both of them by now.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of what you said, and you brought up points I didn't think of, but I think that this part can actually be done. J3X's drivable Chimera (for FO3, but I ran the xedit TTW conversion script on it a while back and it works for FNV) places and fires an invisible weapon when you have it shoot, so unless it can't be placed precisely enough, a similar method could potentially be used as a workaround... Potentially...

[ZurinArctus85]

Why not just have a script set that handles the left hand animations and increase the rate of fire like the hl2 engine handles dual pistols in L4D2? Like say you have 2 pistols, right? Just have a script that dynamically modifies the rate of fire and multiply it by 2, and then another script handles the animation of pseudo firing alternate hands every other shot?

[RoyBatterian]

An invisible weapon is possible, but getting and setting coordinates in script is very heavy on the engine. It might be possible to do these things yes, but doing it all in one frame, I think it would be clunky and slow and feel bad honestly. This kind of thing should be done at engine level and not in a script. If the script engine was multi-threaded and event based then it would be better, but obscript is single threaded.

[ZurinArctus85]

An invisible weapon is possible, but getting and setting coordinates in script is very heavy on the engine. It might be possible to do these things yes, but doing it all in one frame, I think it would be clunky and slow and feel bad honestly. This kind of thing should be done at engine level and not in a script. If the script engine was multi-threaded and event based then it would be better, but obscript is single threaded.

Would an NVSE plugin be able to change that, or even a custom DLL and asi scriptset?