Café Philosophique

[Darnoc]

The world belongs to the brave that I do believe. And this also applies to what we think. If you stop thinking because you are afraid of what may come, then you don't have to begin with it all. People, who thought things which other people were afraid of thinking, were the people who brought us here where we are now. There is no gain without pain or risk. So don't be afraid to think and to use your mind, even when what you are thinking can be scary.

 

Well, about being afraid: I think that the problem with most humans is that they are afraid of what is new. Most people are so used to the way how things are that they have become inflexible. But this isn't how it should be. We should face the unknown and then go on, right into it. This is why I don't really like conservative people, they are afraid of the unknown and I don't like people who are afraid. I understand that somethings are good to be kept, but this isn't the case with everything. We have to change, we have to learn, we have to think in new ways. Only then the universe and everything beyond will upon for us and we will "bouldly go where no man has gone before" (Star Trek rip-off :D )

 

@Breton: That is right. Have you read "1984"? George Orwell makes a very similar statement there. He says that when everyone would believe in something (e.g. that we can fly) that it would become the truth (of course not the absolute truth and real truth, but the truth from our point of view). So now what happens if someone can make all the people believe that dictatorship is the right way to rule (see "1984")?

 

If my almighty being exists and there is a safety implanted in us so that we can't think about our nonexistence... Well, you should watch "The 13th Floor", there something very similar happens. A man living inside a programm, which simulates Los Angeles in the late 90s, suddenly realizes that he is not really existing, that he is only a programm inside a computer. Very cool film, I recommend it to everyone.

[Ancalagon]

The irony of that film is is that it came out when the Matrix came out. But the 13 Floor was an awsome movie.

 

Shakkara Posted on Jan 22 2004, 05:00 AM

However in such moments I begin to question what is happening and just cannot grasp it, so I usually give up and let it slip.

 

Exactly, the same happens to me. It's a really weird feeling, like staring into nothing (read the Neverending Story and you'll understand. It's a description of the Nothing. It's just...Nothing, it's impossible to describe or grasp what it's like) or looking at an enormous white sheet of paper that's completley white. That, or you feel like you're in a dream and at any moment could wake-up.

 

OT: One of the weirdest things ever to happen to me. I had a very, very realistic dream. Bordering on 'creepy real'. In it I was on top of a mesa in the middle of the desert. On top of the mesa there was a sort of Gypsy wagon and I went inside. This woman was there (Gypsy) and she said something like 'Open the blue eye' or 'Pass the vault of the eye' and there was this trapdoor in the bottom of her wagon. She opened it and I felt, smelled, and could taste this cool wind blowing up out of it. All of my senses (taste, touch, hear, smell, sight) were going on full tilt. Which is strange for a dream, since smell and touch are the hardest to replicate.

 

I swear to you it felt like I was wide awake, and that I always had been. I fell though the trapdoor and I woke up. I had not expected to wake up at all. If you can imagine being in a dream, and thinking... believing and knowing that you're awake; then waking up...it will really screw with you. And the rest of the day it felt like I was still stuck in a dream, and that I would wake up at any moment.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

OT: that makes me wish i could see it, but i cant just leave and go rent it, cause i have no car <_< .

 

B. O. T.: well, there is the modern thinking that if (and ill use your example, ancalagon) that if your paper is too white that you should add some color to it. its amazing how the human mind works, isnt it? we sporatically jump from thought to thought, without glance of what could be read between the lines

 

(Thought one)-----------------------------------*

 

(Thought two)-----------------------------------*

 

but what was in between them? we only know what we think as we think it, and therefore cannot know what other people think or what we think in between what we think. philosophy is more of applying thinking, and less of applying knowledge, and most people i know are afraid to think too deeply, like they expect their brain to get stuck in the mud. but, our thinking is limited by what we expect. and our knowledge is adjusted by the outcomes of our experiances, post expectations and thinking. so, if i expect the allmighty to strike me down in five minutes (even though time is an arbitrary distinction) and the outcome is to my advantage of "Life" (assuming all of the 'we are puppets' theory is true) i can say that i know (exhibiting knowledge, in the form of hindsight) that i did not die, even though i may have expected to. also, if we are extensions of the allmighty being, than wouldnt he destroy a part of himself when we die? and therefore is limited in mortality, if all of the beings in the multiverse die? (not to say that i believe to the full extent of such, purely hypothetecal) the mass genocide of all the beings, sentient or otherwise, would kill this allmighty being.

[ArtKing1239]

@ Breton

 

I believe that what you said is just a hypothetical, but I must interject; you're missing the big picture in this almighty creator scenario.

 

If every being in the multiverse died, it would not kill an omnipotent, omnescient creator. You are thinking too deeply into it, and thereby missing an important point; an omnipotent creator, by definition, cannot die. Ever. It would have always been, and forever exist. However, if every being in the multiverse were destroyed, the idea of such a creator in the context of these beings' perceptions would cease to exist; and that would signal the end of an omnipotent creator, but only to its mortal creations. The creator would continue to create; that is the nature of a creator in the first place, and the only nature we can assume to be true of said creator.

 

Try not to overanalyze things; this is a null postulate anyways. Remember Occum's Razor; the simplest explanation is the most likely. Therefore, due to the implications of a God or Gods in the scientific and moral sense, not to mention in the mystical sense, the most likely event is that the Universe is merely a neverending chain of reactions. As long as the law that energy can never be destroyed is held true, then it is acceptable that the universe is infinite. The only question is that of where the energy first came from.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

well, perhaps not kill, but all beings, omnipotent or otherwise, are sensitive to external stimuli, which would be akin to a mass genocide of the multiverse. if he were every character, and were ever-creating, he would also be ever-destroying, to keep things in an ultimate ballance. and therefore "Killing" himself just as he "Creates" himself over.

[Breton Thief Oriana]

Um, sorry for conseq. posting. i thought this was a good thread, maybe ill get a new topic going. let us say, maybe, pollitical philosophy? are the actions of a leader worth the persueing of followers, even if it leads to their doom? say they are the most loyal followers, would do whatever the master asked. then the master becomes corrupt at his own leadership, and twistedly orders his followers to their inherent doom. being the most loyal followers, they cannot break a code to carry out orders, but in order to save the common good they must revolt. would they or not?(hmm, sounds like i almost ripped off Frank R. Stockton :P )

[Darnoc]

They should, but they won't. Why? There are several reasons for this, I think. First one is that humans like traditions, regular things and that everything stays as they are used to it. Most people don't want any changes, they just want a secure and peacefull life and when they have this they are mostly quite content. Only such guys as I am are never content, always searching for something new, something better (that's why I am philosopher).

 

Sometimes I even think the principle of Freedom and Democracy was only invented by some intellectuals and doesn't concern other peoples. I have seen so many people who just don't bother about politics and laws, as long as they can live a good and secure life. Only when this is threatened, the people can be persuaded to do something. Every revolution occured not because the people wanted freedom or anything else idealistic, those revolutions occured because those people saw a better way to live and wanted it. Uprisings and revolutions aren't about ideologies, they are about simple things like more food, better houses and jobs etc. etc. (even when later on ideologies are interpreted into them).

 

So when a leader makes the lives of the people worse, they will not be content and this can lead to a revolution/uprising/rebellion. But when this not the case or only a minority is affected by a worse situation, nothing will happen (Drittes Reich of Hitler is a good example for this; Hitler took away the freedom but gave them jobs and a better life, at least to the majority; but those people who now had a worse life like jews were a minority; that is why nothing happened until the war began and the life of the Germans got worse)

[ohGr]

ahh yes, why are we here?

the worlds greatest question isnt it?

a great movie asking that question (apart from the matrix) is bladerunner, it clearly poses the question, what is the meaning of life, why are we here, do we have a purpose, no one knows, but one day, people might find a reason for existence, and hopefully, in my opinion, it aint religion.

[Darnoc]

Yeah, Bladerunner is a great film. But I think it is more about racism than the question of existence. A film about the question of existence is "The 13th Floor". You ought to watch it, really.

[ohGr]

i reckon that bladerunner also asked the question why are we here, the replicates, their trying to figure out why they were created, well, not all of them, but some of them wanted to know why they were created, which is what we think, why were we destined to live on this planet?

13'th floor eh?, is it in australia, because i've had trouble finding movies that are in america, like Tenebrae, Intruder, bad taste, heck, even eraserhead.