Anyone for a trip to mars?

[VaultPi]

how about NAMES, oh look it's a brain in a jar runnign a robot, why does it say Micheal Smith,

[TrooperScooperMKII]

THINK Tank, I love it!

Anyway, I think that, depending on the player's actions, the brains could end up several ways:

the captain, if "sobered" could end up in an android as the new leader of the Enclave; a scientifically minded player could point out (or have the surgeon do it :thumbsup: ) that the FEV has quite probably mutated even the isolationist enclave by now, and remind them that this historically distinguished, cunning leader and survivor (who survived 200+ YEARS n the FEV lab as a robot) are Pre-War certified brains...

given the rank and the (presumed) leadership capabilities of the old captain, it's probable that (possibly with the threat/memory of Shotgun-Diplomacy) the Enclave could yield to him, even if they won't yield to an off-world mutant.

 

On this note, the player could dig up a Chinese intel file on the spy-surgeon who killed the captain's son back in the day; given his boss's (the disembodied surgeon's) apparent sympathies and rank, it's possible that the spy tried to recruit his superior. In which case, the doc would reject him ("even a broken system is better than an evil one") and pretend it never happened; this would mirror the captain's cover-up of the incriminating Marx-text that he found, which could be presented in tandem with the spy-doc to convince the captain to make amends.

 

...I really need to come up with code names for this guy.

 

Anyway, the other possibility is that the two of them end up as a Don Quixote-Sancho Panza wanderer/vigilante... crazy awesome.

[devinpatterson]

So I was thinking of a couple of additions to the project;

 

Dinosaurs: Pondering if the bio-weapons division might work on extinct creatures, specifically raptors/velociraptors. I think with the gecko skeleton having a tail and a bite animation they'd be do-able. We'd go with the jurrasic park version (or use Deinonychus and/or Achillobators) since real Velociraptor's are small and have feathers (although we could possibly put some small alpha planes with feather textures on the back and on the back of the arms and legs). I think I could get away with making the back legs thicker and the front arms thinner, and increase the length of the tail and size of the head without screwing up the rigging too much.

 

The raptors brain to body ratio is actually very high for a dino (5.8 compared to a human at 7.4), better than a dogs, so I think it could make a good candidate for CQC (close quarters combat-same category the deathclaw was placed in for military activities) since it could theoretically be "trainable". Some people belive raptors were smart enough to hunt with pack tactics and may have been fairly intelligent. Plus if the setgs fJumpHeightMin for increasing jump height, that I'm using for the rocket man perk, works on NPC's (or some equivalent) we could have the raptors jumping 10 or 15 to initiate combat.

 

 

VR:This is a standard VR simulation with pods like tranquility lane. Every staff member gets number of VR R&R hours every week (assuming they don't gamble, sell or trade it away), where they are at home in an idyllic little patriotic community akin to Mayberry or tranquility lane, where they can decompress from the stress and isolation of the project. But of course something has gone wrong nad the player is forced to enter the simulation. We could also have a beach simulation or other vacation sites (skiing perhaps, making a duplicate of jacobbstown lodge in snow covered mountains).

 

 

"Relations" policies:This is just a reflection of the 50's moral but I'd like to throw it in the backstory to ratchet up the pressure staff was under in those days and just add background detail. Essentially it forbids "fraternizing" among staff and any staff member that becomes pregnant will forfeit all wages, possibly face a court martial resulting in dishonorable discharge and be required to repay the united states gov recompenses for the return journey. Maybe have one of the projectors in a room somewhere (near where recruits are processed) playing a movie about the policy.

[devinpatterson]

I'd like to throw in a similar plot line that I read about in the citidal terminals (been slammed at work but finally installed requiem for the wasteland and stumbled on these) and is a major part of the fallout story. You guys have probably played fallout 1 & 2 so this is old news to you. But Roger Maxson was the founder of the BOS and long story short found out about the FEV experiments going on at West-tek. He executed the scientists. I see that as a very smiliar back story to our project when military officer(s) (the normal rank and file, not the few enclave officers in the know) find out what the eggheads have been doing. The West-Tek experiments were more egregious since they were using military prisoners to experiment on, but the mars project may have been doing so as well.

 

It could also imply two different factions, the military (stand up guys, basically good) and the enclave (some of the military brass, some shadow gov type, some military rank and file), basically akin to what they are on earth (essentially evil, xenophobics).

 

just re saw the Iron Giant, recalled that he was from mars, and thought a robot that eats scrap material to repair it's self

 

I do like iron giant, but I'm not sure how well a scrap eating robot would fit in. Maybe we could make the construction protectrons (near the ruin and other areas) gather scrap and use it to make copies of themselves and for repairs. It would add a little bit of a unique twist and still fit withing fallout's lore.

 

 

 

Well my thinking behind the city was that it'd be nice to have a place with some semblance of a "modern" society (megaton/RC in FO3, Vegas/Freeside in NV).

 

I'd strongly recommend against this story line, because it portrays the mars project in a light more akin to a colony and civilians, something I'm trying to discourage. I'd like the mars project to be (IMHO) mainly a military venture (90%+) with a little deviation for pure research (mainly terraforming, but a sprinkling of geology, meteorology etc). Plus we don't want to make it appear as if colonizing and terraforming mars was an option or anywhere on the near term "radar". The geck terraforming could do a dome sized area, but that's a miniscule, microscopic part of the surface area of even a small planet like mars.

 

And I don't really want anyone to be doing well or even just OK. I see the project's facilities as being long deserted of human life (under ai/bot control, or FEV infestation) or occupied and in extreme circumstances (with a few exceptions, like the terraforming dome and the morlock/agri dome). Resources are stretched to teh limits. Cannibalism becomes a necessary evil, H20 and 02 become more precious than ammo and weapons etc. Barely functional machines patched together with sweat and duct tape.

 

In my mind every day for the survivors is pure desperation. Mixed with the isolation, claustrophobia, fear of the FEV's, fear of not having O2 or H20 etc have created "unique" results in the descendants psyches. I'd like even the strongest human survivors (the military/enclave faction) to be fighting tooth and nail for survival, a functional small town would disrupt that impression of sheer desperation. A town implies extra resources, a degree of safety, a larger population (than the factions I had in mind) etc. I envisioned less than a 100 people (humans) left in the whole project, maybe half that. It seems like your vision for the city has hundreds?

 

So I'd just like to emphasize that I don't think this is a good direction for the mod to head in, but that being said, this is a team project and if all of you guys want to go down this story line, then I will contribute. But before we do, take what I'v said above as a vision for hte mod and compare it to what the town/micro-city and colonists/workers would imply and see which you guys think would make a better setting.

 

If you guys decide to go with the city here are some thoughts;

 

The idea was to transport vault survivors to Mars.

 

Just a though you could go with a vault-tec facility. The wiki mentions the vaults on earth being constructed for around 600 Billion. I don't know if that is primarily the cost of tech or the excavation, and that's also with 500 people (1000 with hot bunking). So I don't think it would be out of the question for a vault tec facility of a 100 peeps to fall in that 600 Billion $ price range if they don't have to excavated deep into the bedrock. So essentially using the same reasoning as the other vaults (and giving it a secret experiment). That could cover your need for citizens/workers, give you some re-enforcing lore (vault-tec has extensive experience in life support and they could even have their little numbered jump suits) and throw an extra plot line in (that vaults experiment) all in one shot.

 

military generals banded together as many uninfected as possible and took the monorail transports to the city. A few brave soldiers stayed behind to sabotage the raillines and prevent the infected from following. The survivors reached the city, and with most of the VIP leaders dead, the general took charge.

 

Sounds solid.

 

Skip forward a hundred or so years and the 6/7th gen military are atill in control........I thought perhaps we could include some brainwashing stuff in here as well. Vault-tec built the vaults for this very reason, to study the effects of isolationalism and other unforseeable events on a population.

 

They have a good snipet of lore for the brainwashing, check out CODE from van buren . But it you need a more specific idea for the vault experiment, since almost all of them contain the isolation component. Still that shoudn't be hard, a million ideas come to mind.

 

Perhaps another way of forcing the tribals to stop living in their "perfect" daydream world and start accepting the help of the technologically advanced misfits their predessecors had previously cast out (if we go with that story for the agri-dome that is).

 

Possibly, but I much prefer the idea of the ghouls (morlocks) twisted by jealousy/envy of the pure strain humans (and their idyllic life above), being downright evil cannibals and the results of that conflict. As opposed to simply a matter of appearance and misunderstanding between the ghouls and the tribals.

 

 

 

 

So them not correctly making the Mars experiments sterile correctly is easily foreseeable (as well as the effect of mutations caused by both the solar and alien ruins radiation).

 

Yeah that's why I'm thinking that mutations both way (fertile and sterile) are particularly hard to predict and we know "life finds a way"

 

2) I was right despite what the wiki says (and what the crazy B-movie character Dr Borous says) the nightstalkers were shipped that way to Big MT as a shipment of "dogs" for cyberdog research.

 

OK I'll double check the wiki and the terminal notes when I get time, but I hope they were made by Dr. Boruous as opposed to a mutation, because I want to use them in the bio weapons division and it would be a lot easier that way.

 

3) With the terraforming dome, I'd say a good way to cut it off ......An almost army of maintence and docent bots (it was intended to be converted to a museum to the terraforming project at completion) and the ghoul that lives there (one of the original terraforming researchers) who splits his time between defending the place and working on plans to complete the project , changing the original plans and formulas to account for the new hazards and mutations (possibly a key person in the "complete the terraforming" idea we had with the GECK warheads, though as we said it would take a couple of generations even then to completely terraform Mars since no new warheads are gonna be coming from earth or the other facilities).

 

True some cataclysmic sized chasms could have opened up around the dome, and the lone goul defender is a good idea. Re: the museum you want to remember this project is top secret because of the ruins so it won't be a base of colonization or open to the public (for the museum), even in the future. re: the terraforming much more than couple generations I think. The geck is the most advanced piece of hardware in teh fallout universe (FO3 type geck that is), whether a warhead or not it can only do a infantesimal part of the planet so it'd have to be done via genetically engineered flora (like in red mars, green mars etc by Robinson). Which means you are talking much longer than a couple of generations. The FEV research was experiments to speed that development up radically (and of course mutate the flora into a form that could survive the harsh environment), but as evidenced by the toxic jungle, not everything went according to plan.

 

4) Really loving the idea of the City Dome......cultural/history/government center of the new world settlement would fit nicely.

 

I think you'r still seeing the project as a colony vs a research facility. A research facility really pushes the bounds of lore, but I think a colony is far beyond fallout universe/lore, more akin to a different game setting. In a world shaped by military conflict and low on resources you have to have a reason for a project this extensive, and it can't really be something that is generations down the line (project safehouse already has that in the vaults). The idea of a limited research facility to gain the upper hand militarily with alien tech has a long pedigree in fallout lore and is just about the only real justification that makes sense in fallout's geo-political situation.

Edited March 28, 2012 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

just a hat for the brains. 8)

 

True, don't want ionizing radiation from UV and other junk frying the gray matter. Teh problem with him putting on a hat before he heads out is you have to make a new refid for the new model (the one with the hat) and that can really throw a monkey wrench into the scripting. I know there is a way of doing it by baking in different models into one nif, but I'v only seen it used once in fallout. So as an alternative how about him just wearing it all the time, inside or out (add a little character there). Did you want a military headgear or ??

 

Speaking of which, what sort of bot is it going to be? Given the 200+ years of isolation in the FEV facility (story-wise it's probably best to put him/them there) amidst god-knows what, this isn't a standard bot... this guy's probably a walking tank, maybe even an alien relic (i.e. "mecha" type thing, a big friggin death robot tripod?)

 

I can beef up a robobrain some, make it a heavier model. The only alien bots we have are the two drones, from zeta, but there may not even be skeletons in the BSA so I don't know how usable they are. Plus they don't have the cool place to put a brain like the robobrains do.

 

The Captain (to the player): I'm sorry, meatsack......

 

Nice work on the dialog :)

 

THINK Tank, I love it!

 

Careful on the think tank, it's in use extensively in OWB, both by the think tank bots (the Dr's) and the complex is named "the think tank".

 

the new leader of the Enclave;

 

Probably not the best choice, since the enclave are going to be one of the more evil factions and one of the most xenophobic.

 

On this note, the player could dig up a Chinese intel file on the spy-surgeon who killed the captain's son back in the day; given his boss's (the disembodied surgeon's) apparent sympathies and rank, it's possible that the spy tried to recruit his superior. In which case, the doc would reject him ("even a broken system is better than an evil one") and pretend it never happened; this would mirror the captain's cover-up of the incriminating Marx-text that he found, which could be presented in tandem with the spy-doc to convince the captain to make amends.

 

Not quite following along there, could you clarify that for me? Amends between the two (doc and soldier) or among the brainbot and the military faction?

 

Anyway, the other possibility is that the two of them end up as a Don Quixote-Sancho Panza wanderer/vigilante... crazy awesome.

 

I like that idea, maybe his windmill could be the terraforming research, a quest that he will do til the end of time....

Edited March 28, 2012 by devinpatterson

[kibblesticks]

Dinosaurs

Genius! sososo great..

 

Cannibalism becomes a necessary evil, H20 and 02 become more precious than ammo and weapons etc. Barely functional machines patched together with sweat and duct tape.

 

In my mind every day for the survivors is pure desperation. Mixed with the isolation, claustrophobia, fear of the FEV's, fear of not having O2 or H20 etc have created "unique" results in the descendants psyches. I'd like even the strongest human survivors (the military/enclave faction) to be fighting tooth and nail for survival, a functional small town would disrupt that impression of sheer desperation. A town implies extra resources, a degree of safety, a larger population (than the factions I had in mind) etc. I envisioned less than a 100 people (humans) left in the whole project, maybe half that. It seems like your vision for the city has hundreds?

 

Well I have to say, less than one hundred sounds a little unpopulated. Admittedly the harsh atmosphere of Mars would probably have killed off most survivors, but surely anyone surviving now (200 years later) would be devovled to an animal-like state? Language skills would be shot to pieces, and humans would set upon any living thing the moment they saw it, without any thought of dialouge. In short, I guess I'm just wondering how we're going to make an interesting story with no actors to play the parts? Presper won't be met till the end. Descendants of the original mission will be no more than rabid animals. Robots will provide backstory, but without emotion that'll be pretty bland. My thinking is that even a small settlement, like Aerfu or Megaton, provides juxtaposition with the harsh enviroment, and highlights the desperation of the resident's plight, rather than detracting from it. I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this, because until now I was thinking along the lines of at least a few hundred residents of Mars, if not more. Also bear in mind that Fallout numbers aren't like real world numbers. Megaton is meant to hold a few hundred people but only about 30 actual in-game NPCs exist, each NPC being equal to about ten normal people.

 

As for the vision of the mod, I really do like the idea of H20 and 02 being more valuable than ammo, etc.. you conjured up a very nice picture of a desperate planet. I'd put it to you though, that it's very hard to care about the fate of a planet when it's inhabited by less than a hundred inbred morons. Much easier to become attached to a place with real lives and stories you can relate to, and which you think has a future and a chance at survival. People you can emotionally invest in basically.

 

 

Perhaps another way of forcing the tribals to stop living in their "perfect" daydream world and start accepting the help of the technologically advanced misfits their predessecors had previously cast out (if we go with that story for the agri-dome that is).

Possibly, but I much prefer the idea of the ghouls (morlocks) twisted by jealousy/envy of the pure strain humans (and their idyllic life above), being downright evil cannibals and the results of that conflict. As opposed to simply a matter of appearance and misunderstanding between the ghouls and the tribals.

 

Gnngh.. out of everything, this probably grates on my gut instinct the most :tongue: You say "simply a matter of appearance and misunderstanding", I say "an age old theme of prejudice which links strongly into Fallout and provides an example that no matter how idealic the situation, humans will always find an excuse to make war with each other."

 

Right off the bat, I really dislike things which are evil for evil's sake. Where's the motive? Why were the ghouls down there in the first place? What could they hope to gain by working against the tribals, as apposed to working with them? In my version, the results of the scenario is similar, it's just harder to pick sides. I think I spread the story idea across a couple of posts, so just to re-iterate:

 

Original agriculture workers move into dome, everything goes swimmingly. Chinese attack, agriculture dome manages to shut it's defences in time to avoid the attacks. The researchers from the FEV dome do not, however, and their dome is damaged beyond immediate repair (this is also when the plants get out). The FEV team make it to the agri-dome on foot. The agri-dome team let them in and everything goes swimmingly for a while. Some of the FEV team die from radiation posioning, whilst others begin to ghoulify. Military doctrine dictates they have to be executed. The dome is divided on whether to carry out the execution or not, and decide to wait for word from the Command Centre. The ghouls are eventually quarantined "for their own safety", but are allowed to continue working maintenance in the dome. Many are not happy with the decision though, and over the next few years relations between ghouls and smoothskins quickly deteriorate. The second and third generations of pure humans grow up, often warned by their parents not to interact with the ghouls (who are commonly seen as violent and untrustworthy). Many of the ghouls themselves are bitter towards the smoothskins for eostrosizing them (ignoring the fact that they would have died if not for the compassion of some of the smoothskins). Like in all socities, their are both mediators and trouble-makers on both sides. Many of the original generation die, and of the few that are left, only a minute handful have any sympathy with the ghouls. Relations reach breaking point, and the newest generation of smoothskins have grown up spoilt and lazy, allowing the dome's robots to maintain and harvest the crops. The dome's AI is treated like a god at this point, as very few of the new generation have any idea about the workings of robotics or science. Ove the years, people occasionally succumb to ghoulification, through contact with radioactive material. They are treated as cursed and some kill themselves in shame. One smoothskin comes to prominance as a leader, and asks the Dome AI how they should deal with the ghouls, who are clearly a blight on their perfect society. The dome AI recites enclave doctrine, which dictates the ghouls be purged. The ghouls get wind of this, and escape into the catacombs before the tribals manage to capture them. The few ghoul leaders who kept the peace all those years become enraged, along with the rest of the ghoul colony. Using their knowledge of the Agri-dome's ventalation and security systems, they infiltrate the base regularly, sometimes stealing food, sometimes dragging tribals below ground to kill them. With no foreseeable hope in their future, the ghouls start to function as individuals, rather than a society, each looking out for his or herself.

 

The above is a story of evils commited on both sides. Both are hard to justify, since the tribals were only following the doctrine of their "god" which was actually laid down by a much more "civilised" society than themselves. Some ghouls were admittedly violent in the dome's society, and to the tribal's primitive understanding, ghoulification could be seen as a curse, or contagious. On the other hand, the ghouls had to put up with some seriously bad treatment, as well as coping with the traumatic ghoulification proccess. They are now commiting murder against the tribals with zeal.

 

I prefer this way, as both sides seem human, rather than saying "radiation made the humans evil".

[TrooperScooperMKII]

I agree, evil for evil's sake is... trite. I mean, even the Enclave's "purification" could, possibly (maybe) be... well.... a Godzilla Threshold against super mutants, and....

nah. They deserve to burn. :devil:

Also, 100 people is a bit small, even for a Martian research facility... Devin, I think that the tunnels offer a perfect, pre-made vault of sorts; most of the humans could be down there. Besides, you can't have a war without people to fight in it...

Rather than one big city, though, I see two large settlements and a lot of survivor conclaves: the "city dome/cave" which is like Rivet City- i.e. the biggest, safest, most "advanced" settlement that nonetheless is a retooled sliver of a Pre-War relic (maybe a "crystal city" in the tubes? a big subway station?) and a smaller, more haphazard outpost a la Megaton. This and a few dozen conclaves of ~5 to 15 survivors interspersed along the zombie-apocalypse tunnels and domes...

 

having a few caches of survivors along the way gives a much-needed opportunity to escape the fight-or-flight of the tunnel, and also opens up good old desperation dilemmas: if a group is kind enough to let you in, are they secretly planning to kill you, or are you planning to kill them for loot? If they demand some sort of payment, do you try to steal from them in the name of the "greater good" (stopping Presper?)

"Random" encounters with small holdouts (which could very well be overrun at any time; just prevent any respawning/new spawns, and eventually, if they aren't in a good enough position to hold off the hordes, nature will do its thing.)

An organic situation like that, IMO would really give a dynamic, human element, and really add a good vibe to the mod as a whole.

[devinpatterson]

Dino's are fun, it's just too bad most of them are idjits, well maybe not "bad" since we descended from teh mammal line and all, but bad in that there's not a whole lot of suitable candidates for our bio weapons due to their low intelligence. But then again we don't have much in the way of actual rigged dino models anyway so it's pretty much a moot point. Raptors it is (plus they'r one of the most awesome anyway, so it could have been worse).

 

 

Well I have to say, less than one hundred sounds a little unpopulated.......In short, I guess I'm just wondering how we're going to make an interesting story with no actors to play the parts? Presper won't be met till the end. Descendants of the original mission will be no more than rabid animals.

 

I think that if we learned anything from evolutionary theory, it's that life will adapt to be better suited to it's environment (at least the ones that survive). A good example is reading. Because it's essential for the martians survival (I'm just gonna use martians as a catch all for every human on the red planet) it it passed down (ie reading manuals for instance. So some skills are rewarded others will surely wither and die (like the arts for example).

 

And OWB gets by with only half a dozen (?) speaking actors, just the think tanks if I remember right. But I can tell you guys really want to do this and I really don't want to piss in anybody's cheerios. I'd like to think we all get a chance to express our creativity.

 

My thinking is that even a small settlement, like Aerfu or Megaton.......I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this......Megaton is meant to hold a few hundred people but only about 30 actual in-game NPCs exist

 

I think something along the size of Megaton would be a reasonable compromise if it's large enough to do what you would like with your plot line. I think it's small enough that it won't overshadow the idea of the research base.

 

that it's very hard to care about the fate of a planet when it's inhabited by less than a hundred inbred morons.......People you can emotionally invest in basically.

 

Alas evolution is a cruel mistress and I'm afraid the stupid, weak etc would have been the first to go. What you have are the best in regards to survival. Of course that doesn't mean the best examples of humanity. It may mean the strongest/swiftest, or the most intelligent but it can also mean the most psychotic or ruthless. That will be for us to decide who dominates their little ecological niches and why.

 

But I understand your concerns regarding a human connection, and honestly we probably won't be making like over 30 NPC's in the city anyway (simply because of the workload of writing dialog, plot lines etc for all of them), so would something on the order of megaton be enough to do what you have in mind? It sounds like it's isolated from most of the rest of the project (at least initially until the player tips the balance) so they (city and research base) could work side by without interfering with each other.

 

Gnngh.. out of everything, this probably grates on my gut instinct the most :tongue: You say "simply a matter of appearance and misunderstanding", I say "an age old theme of prejudice which links strongly into Fallout and provides an example that no matter how idealic the situation, humans will always find an excuse to make war with each other."

 

Not my intention to offend. But I am rather partial to the idea of feral ghouls as morlocks (with some capability to use weapons repair machinery). But no reason you can't run the plotline you'v described in teh city. Plus I think it would go better in that environment a sort of secret underclass of the city. Something akin to the "untouchables" during the middle ages of Japan. But I'll read through teh summary you have below a little later (at work now, so I can only sneak 5 or 10 minutes hear and there) and see if I can get a better understanding.

 

Right off the bat, I really dislike things which are evil for evil's sake. Where's the motive? Why were the ghouls down there in the first place? What could they hope to gain by working against the tribals, as apposed to working with them?

 

Evil: because they eat you. Motive;to eat you. Hope to gain: eat you. Yeah they're ferals, they do that, but I like to throw in the twist of them being able to use weapons and keep equipment going in their underground lair.

 

In my version, the results of the scenario is similar, it's just harder to pick sides......I prefer this way, as both sides seem human, rather than saying "radiation made the humans evil".

 

Yes, lets do both. I think the dome and the city both lend themselves well to the respective story lines.

[greenknightfury]

I agree that we need a population, and having that while still highlighting the desperate situation, i.e. resources, is possible jjust look at the examples in FO3:

 

Water (pure at least) is very scarce and irradiated water and radiation causing sickness, death or mutation in a 10th of the population, while dehydration is killing most travelers or small communities.

 

Many communities sitting at the edge of death because of failing, constantly repaired and cobbled into working order tech (i.e. Megaton's water purifier, Underworlds air pumps). This would be extremely appropriate for the Mars settlements, just like it was for them and for stuff like the vault from FO 1 (the whole reason you leave the vault). "We are going to die if the water/air system fails" or "We resort to cannibalism" (either normal or Soylent Green, highly appropriate for them to do with the dead rather than just waste them buried or burned, other than using them as fertilizer in the fields for the agridome "Given to the soil") would be awesome storylines to place in the Mars setting.

 

Constant threat of slavers, cannibals and Supermutants causing horrible physical and mental strain on communities, making them just barely hang onto survival and sanity, (i.e. Arefu, Bigtown) and for Mars this could easily be cannibal and FEV mutations.

 

 

Part of why I see this as I do with a colony aspect is the Enclave backing and the whole idea that it was a place to do what the Vault-tec tests were all about, the ruins were always talked about as remote to the domes but still reachable from them, and even here on Earth there are plenty of secret and forbidden facilities to use as a mental example of how they would handle a colony near them while still keeping people in the dark other than authorized personnel.(and in the FO universe heavily armed turrets set to kill unauthorized personnel and some other nasty defenses would be a likely method of doing it The resources thing would be a big part of why I see it as a colony idea, it would be the foothold to use to exploit the resources of an entire world!

 

Wanting to keep this as real as possible, a hundred people would end up giving you a handful of Point Lookout style inbreeds and some ghouls after 200 years.

[greenknightfury]

Hmm just read the new post you put and gotta say...I do like the idea of the "morlocks" being ferals with tool-use makes them very true to the original story...and an underclass of ghouls/mutated humans (that are still mentally human) would be awesome for the city *chuckles* kind of what I had suggested for a settlement part of it very early on.

 

I do love the idea of some raptors...and the fact that they would be even smarter than normal just because their brains would be the biggest advantage they would have over the mutants, so that would be selected for heavily and it is even possible they would be to a tool-use level of intellect between tweaking for usefulness by scientists and the subsequent mutation and breeding selection. (kind of like the intelligent Deathclaws)