[Moonshot] Deep Neural Nexus

[Runestones]

CAN I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?
Good :thumbsup: Now keep it here while I try to keep it interesting, simple and AMAAAAZING *o*

First of all, I have to ask...
Do you know what a "Deep Neural Network" is?
It is the combination of "Deep Learning" and a "Neural Network".

-But what the f*** is that? You said nothing, you dummass!
Calm down, brah, I'm building up to it.

To avoid a Tl;Dr, I'll try to sum it up a bit:
"Deep learning" is a branch of machine learning that tries to create a multi-purpose algorithm to "learn something" out of a set of data, while an "Artificial Neural Network" is a biologically inspired programming paradigm that allows a computer to learn by observation and analysis.
So, a "Deep Neural Network" would be the combination of both, a computer program/algorithm that can learn to do something new by observation and analysis, for example, playing a game, learning by itself and getting better by playing.
Video examples below: (you don't need to watch it whole or at all, it's just to give you a general idea.)

 

 

 

 

-Okay, so... why the hell are you bringing this up? You still haven't said anything and this is about playing, not modding... why is that important, maaan?
Chill bro, I'm getting there.

Deep Neural Networks have several applications besides teaching a computer how to game. You might have heard, for example, of a website called deepart.io or a cellphone app called Prisma. I can't be sure about the latter, though I do am pretty sure, but the first does use a Deep Neural Network to implement the style of an image or painting into a photo you give it, and it gets better the more it is used, as with each image, it learns how to do it better.

 

 

Okay, you have enough background information now to get to the really amazing stuff...

Just imagine if a system like that, which learns by itself, analyses and is able to produce new, amazing results alone, were to be used as the mod manager itself.
TAN TAN TAAAAAAN!!!

Hear this, a software, able to analyse the code of any mod, understand it, make a game run with it through a cloud gaming server, testing several different mods at once, recombining them, bug checking, bug fixing and so on.
It downloads each and every game mod in the nexus, steam and any other mods portal, understands it, makes a "perfected" version of it without the problems, makes mods compatible with each other and so on, all autonomously.

Instead of having the usual mod manager you might use, whichever it may be, you'd use a specific mod manager that connects to this neural network's server.
Whichever mod you download or add manually, would be checked in the server and you'd get a single "supermod" installed in your game that would be all the DLC's and mods you wish for fused into a single one, so you wouldn't even have a limit to the number of mods you have installed.

No need for loot, boss, cleaning mods, bug checking or whatever, just get a mod and play without any issues what-so-ever!

-WHAAAAT!?

YES, exactly that. Any mod (even those 18+ mods you added to give your game a sense of "ultra realistic mature genre") would be almost immediately compatible with all your other mods and not have any bug.
No more glitching, no more playing for 50 hours and suddenly facing CTD's for no reason at all, no more headache.

Is it really possible?

I believe it to be and a system like that could be adapted to work not only with Skyrim but, just maybe, with any game or simulation and even make mods of one game compatible with another, and probably even create mods of its own. Maybe it could even make a game compatible with a completely different system, so you'd be able to play Skyrim in your smart watch, smart glass, smart mirror and even give it a chance at your smart toaster.

Can we do it? If there is enough desire and smart enough people get together, we most probably can!

=============================================

Personal Note:
Now, I'll be honest about one thing. I do not own Skyrim.
Never had the spare money to buy it and was forced to play a pirated copy, which is why I never really asked for much help towards fixing bugs nor complained about anything. I never even played much, to be truthful, as Skyrim to me was always a tool towards studying. (-Liar...) I'm telling the truth here.
I was studying "Game Designing", by looking through the nexus and other mod websites for that which seemed like a good mechanic, something that looked like it should be a part of the game or just that which gave it a sense of more realism and historical accuracy at times. Skyrim has always been a tool of learning to me, a perfect platform to study how to properly create a game and a great example of a really immersive and well designed system and story.

I am more than extremely thankful to have been able to experience it and to use it as a tool to learn a lot, which started my dream to, one day, help create something as amazing as it was to me.
One day, when I have money to spare, I will buy an official copy of it, even if I don't ever play it for it being already too old, but it deserves to be bought.

I faced a lot of bugs while modding it but I also learned a lot. I got to a point where I got too tired of bug checking and trying to fix everything when my game was having CTD's every 10 minutes after character creating which made me give up from it for quite a long time.

I've been nurturing this idea for a "Deep Neural Nexus" in my head for quite a while now, and felt like it just might be the time to bring it up to this community, as I know how amazing you guys can be and how capable you are. I hope you find it interesting even if it is coming from the head of a pirate. (Arrrr)

This concept could change everything, and not only for Skyrim, for any game out there.
So... what do you think, wanna give it a try?

Edited September 25, 2016 by Runestones

[SineWaveDrox]

With the download of this "supermod", you would be downloading a modified version of the original mod. You'd run into issues with permissions with that from mod authors who do not want their mods redistributed outside of their own original source.

[Runestones]

With the download of this "supermod", you would be downloading a modified version of the original mod. You'd run into issues with permissions with that from mod authors who do not want their mods redistributed outside of their own original source.

Kind of, but not really. You see, the "supermod" would be hand tailored to each person and should be in a file type that only the program itself can handle, which would also not accept receiving a manual input of a file of that type, only downloading it directly from the cloud's "Deep Neural Nexus" (I like this name...)

It is good to think of that as an issue, but I believe it would not be, as the person, to have that mod in his "supermod" would need to have downloaded it from the original source.

 

The idea is that this DNN would get the mods you "installed" to create your supermod. Yes, it also downloads mods from the web to its server, but only to learn how they work, fix its bugs, make it compatible to every other mods it knows and be ready in case someone installs that mod. I believe no one would have a problem with a modified version of his own mod like that if it is hand tailored to each person's case.

 

Imagine a "professional modder" that goes to your house, for free, and messes a bit with each mod just to make it perfect for you, but puts it in a way that you can't share it with someone else. You'd have to give your friends the original mods used and tell them to call that modder to do the same for them. They will have the exact same result, but no one downloaded a modified version of any of the original mods, understand? There is no redistribution, only fixing and making things compatible. Adding and removing mods and DLC's would be about the same as it already is, the result and amount of work needed is what would be different, as it would be way easier and faster...

 

What I said about the program creating new mods by itself is that, after a while, it would understand enough to be able to do so. Maybe only assist someone while they create their mods, maybe one day a fully autonomous mod creator, who knows? But it could be interesting.

 

The thing is, with a system like that, no one would have problems of trying to make the mods they wish compatible with each other and no creator would have to create compatibility patches for users as they complain. No one would face game crashing bugs anymore and any mod you created would be instantly bug free, maybe the system could even tell you where the bugs were, so you can clean it at your original mod. No more crashing, no more losing a 100 hours game thanks to it suddenly having CTD after CTD for no apparent reason. No more corrupt saves. No more bug fixing and compatibility problems...

 

Do you really think people would start to search for details which they can complain about from that, when they finally can create the perfect version of their custom Skyrim?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Runestones

[Runestones]

If you, or anyone reading this, think up another issue, please do comment.
I truly believe this could be amazing for the gaming industry as a whole and, if so, it is important to get this discussion going to think up most of the possible problems even before starting. :thumbsup:

But as I said again and again, I really believe this would be one of the greatest allies to modders and mod creators everywhere. :wink:

[Runestones]

I expected a bit of reaction to this posting by people pointing out if they liked or disliked the idea =/
I see a lot of views already, but not a single reply to get the talk on this subject started besides insanityman's one =/

Please guys, share your opinion on what you think. If you find it amazing, if you find it stupid, if you wish for it, if you wish it never happens... what do you think?
Can you see a problem with it? Can you think of something that could work great with it? Do you know of a Technical Challenge that might become a problem? Do you know any reason why this might be impossible with the way I described it? If so, can you think of anything that might correct and improve this concept?

Please, get this discussion going in order to pull more eyes towards it, generate interest and maybe, just maybe, see it become a reality some day. Share it. Call friends to comment as well.
Should I repost it at the Fallout 4 forum as well? What do the admins think?
I want to hear you all as well. I really do believe something like this might be "the holy grail" to modders everywhere or at least something close to that.

[Nephenee13]

Its not possible, probably violates the standards of permissions for this site, and is generally not worth discussing.

Also your first post is annoying to read.

[Runestones]

Its not possible, probably violates the standards of permissions for this site, and is generally not worth discussing.

Also your first post is annoying to read.

 

Thank you for the input. Now, why? ^^

I tried to make the original post as interesting as possible, so sorry if to you it was displeasing, as to me I had to read it lots of times and still read it every time I open this topic to see if I can think up a way to improve it.

I don't believe it to be impossible, so to that, I just agree to disagree. There is always a way.

[moriador]

 

There is always a way.

 

I think that if you unplug for a few moments and go out into the real world for a look-around, you'll notice that this is self-evidently false.

 

But even if we keep it restricted to the tiny world of Skyrim modding... let me ask you this: What's the first step? Do you even know exactly and precisely what is involved in getting access to such a network? (And I don't just mean the shallow experimental access that companies like Google let people play around on for free.)

 

Then, even if you have access, what then? What precise steps would you take?

 

Unless you have some very specific and concrete ideas of how to go about such a thing, you're basically just dreaming. And we all have dreams. Seriously, if you're going to dream about deep neural networks, why stop there? Why not imagine when your perfect modded game is plugged directly into the back of your head for complete and total immersion? :D Surely there's at least one extremely talented neurosurgeon who mods Skyrim in his or her spare time who would be willing to implant the nodes into our brains!!

Edited September 25, 2016 by moriador

[Project579]

And how do you plan to maintain a deep neural network? Servers and infrastructures don't come for free. And one person alone cannot develop something like that alone you will need a team.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Project579

[Runestones]

Thank you for the input, both of you ^^ Now...

 

I think that if you unplug for a few moments and go out into the real world for a look-around, you'll notice that this is self-evidently false.

Please refrain from trying to insult me, assuming you know anything about my life and such. We are not friends, you don't know me, and just as an added information, I haven't been playing immersive and long games like this for a while now as I've been studying for college entrance exams into Control and Automation Engineering. And the "real world" is where I get my evidence that, if you are creative and resourceful enough, you can find a way, a solution, to any problem.
Those who say something is impossible are the ones who have something to prove by providing the exact information that concretizes the impossibility of something.
Until then, it is "possible". Not "real", but at least possible.

But even if we keep it restricted to the tiny world of Skyrim modding... let me ask you this: What's the first step? Do you even know exactly and precisely what is involved in getting access to such a network? (And I don't just mean the shallow experimental access that companies like Google let people play around on for free.)

 

Then, even if you have access, what then? What precise steps would you take?

 

"What is the first step?"

Gathering resources and interest.

Interested people and those who know specifics on how to create such a system, experienced modders and programmers, people who'd be willing to spend a bit of their money to help fund such a project if it were to be created as a crowd-funding system with the correct specifics.

"Do you even know exactly and precisely what is involved in getting access to such a network?"
No, 'cause if I knew, I wouldn't be here, I would already be starting it as a project and trying to at least start the creation by myself before starting to gather interested people, but with my "shallow" knowledge and understanding of programming and what I learned through sheer curiosity was enough for me to get at least a rough idea on what might most probably be needed and know that this is possible and the perks of such a system, not only to "modding" and "gaming", but to any kind of simulation program, even professional ones.

"Then, even if you have access, what then? What precise steps would you take?"
I doubt and seriously would advise that one person should not hold full decision power onto something that could change the gaming and simulation industry as a whole like this, but:
I would devise a set of rules a way so that any person or company could have access to such a program for their system, provided they don't try to tamper or hack the original network in any way.
Start the Network development, teaching it to read, to understand the game and to understand code and textures, by not only making it learn by itself, but observe others game, program and taking "lessons". If a DNN can learn by itself, it can also be taught and learn by observation, or so I believe.

 

Unless you have some very specific and concrete ideas of how to go about such a thing, you're basically just dreaming. And we all have dreams. Seriously, if you're going to dream about deep neural networks, why stop there? Why not imagine when your perfect modded game is plugged directly into the back of your head for complete and total immersion? :D Surely there's at least one extremely talented neurosurgeon who mods Skyrim in his or her spare time who would be willing to implant the nodes into our brains!!

 

Just fyi, you don't need a brain implant to have full immersion. If you think so, someone lied to you.
All you need is a good enough system to transform your body's natural movements as input, keeping you in place but with full freedom of movement and have an output for tact, sound and image, taste and smell are secondary.
I already have a project on that myself and I'm sure there might be others out there with a similar project like this.

And how do you plan to maintain a deep neural network? Servers and infrastructures don't come for free. And one person alone cannot develop something like that alone you will need a team.

 

 

Crowd-funding, mainly. If it is something to benefit all, it should also be maintained and funded by all and everyone should have every information on how much money is needed and spent to the last cent.

No, one person can't and also should not develop this alone, ever. As I said, to the general simulation industry, be it games or professional simulations, this is too big, so it has to be a conjoined effort by a really big group of people, even if starting small. But it has to start somewhere, so why not here, where there is so much interest on developing modifications for a simulation already?

Modding is but trying to evolve this simulation deemed "game", right?