A better path towards maturity.

[Sativarg]

IMHO

 

Many cultures on this planet have rights of passage that facilitate the

integration of a person into adulthood. Perhaps these rights are not as

uncivilized as we "civil people" have been lead to believe. Perhaps a

ceremonial challenge can help us embrace our whole nature in a way that

is much more healthy than say a Catechism or a B'nai Mitzvah.

 

 

We humans are very close to being wild creatures. No matter what we

are told by theologians and philosophers we must come to terms with the

"beast" that inhabits us. By beast I mean the visceral instinctive part of our selves,

that is just as valuable, real and worthy as the "higher nature" we are

constantly told we really are. I believe this nature should be embraced and respected.

 

 

I believe that by embracing our beast we can become integrated and

that when we try to deny the beast we become unclean, un-integrated and

dangerous. I also believe that the right of passage should be a time

when a human being learns to recognize accept and integrate with there

animal nature. And that when this integration is coupled with wisdom

and understanding and guidelines; when the passage means that things

really change with true consequences the child can integrate and become

whole and adult.

[ninja_lord666]

If you think about it, we do have a rite of passage. It's not like going out into the wild for a week with no supplies, or killing an animal with our bear hands, or anything like that; it's graduating from high school. Most people graduate from high school at age 18, the universal age of adulthood, and anyone who doesn't graduate lives a very crappy life in a dead end job living paycheck to paycheck. People who do graduate [usually] live better lives, especially if they move on to college.

[Sativarg]

Yea, OK... but to me 17 0r 18 seems a bit late for the type of thing I'm talking about. It seems to me that modern humanity is missing the mark. I believe timing is crucial to healthy development. Not every one developers at the same rate but we all pass through stages of change that can not be revisited.

 

_{Following is a run on sentence} :blush:

For most preindustrial societies that observe the types of rites of integration I am concerned with, the right time is near puberty and not 5 or 6 years later. And, if all that was needed was graduation from high school then I feel that far fewer teens would be suffering, anorexic, depressed, suicidal and or worse. Perhaps there would be no need for metal detectors in the entrances of middle and high schools if we didn't deny or ignore the fact that we are animals as well as people.

 

I am only saying that there are certain times when a person can best face aspects of there own nature and once that time has passed it may be much harder to integrate, successfully, the aspects of one's personality.

[Jumonji]

It's funny the things you learn in life. You often forget if you really learned it from someone else or if you just figured it out for yourself. Sometimes you don't even know you know something until someone asks you, then you realize that you already knew it.

 

Yes, we're animals. We're much closer to animals than gods. Almost everything that we think makes us different from animals is really just a very, very small improvement over what animals already have. There's only one thing that is really and truly unique about people, and it is very simple: We know we will die some day. That's the only thing that is really and truly different about us. All of our "humanity" comes from that one bit of knowledge - anything else is just wishful thinking.

 

-Jumonji

[ninja_lord666]

  Jumonji said:

There's only one thing that is really and truly unique about people, and it is very simple: We know we will die some day. That's the only thing that is really and truly different about us. All of our "humanity" comes from that one bit of knowledge - anything else is just wishful thinking.

What about knowing who we are? We know we're animals, and we know we evolved from animals. Animals don't know that. They just know that they exist.

[Jumonji]

Sorry - I just realized I strayed way off topic and didn't address the initial question!

 

I agree - we need a better transition from childhood to adulthood. It's been getting older and older, especially the last 50 years. They even made a  movie about it - "Failure to Launch" - about a guy who hasn't matured even though he's in his 30's. That just shows how far we've gone.

 

I think a big part of it is that we don't give people any real responsiblities any more until they're out of college. Used to be that kids did farm chores as soon as they could walk, and then they were ready to have families at 15, not 50. But without any sense of being responsible for your own upkeep, why should kids ever stop playing? Playing is a lot more fun than being a grownup! Being a grownup is hard. But - it is a lot deeper and more prideful, in a good way, than just winning a game.

 

Read Joseph Cambel's books on the value of Myth - he talks about the symbolism of these transitions and how important they are. There was also a tv s

ow about it.

 

-Jumonji

[Jumonji]

  ninja_lord666 said:

...

What about knowing who we are? We know we're animals, and we know we evolved from animals. Animals don't know that. They just know that they exist.

 

Good points. I just think that the knowledge of our death is really the source of all that. If we didn't know that we die, we would never even think of evolution. It all comes from that one bit of knowledge.

 

Also, animals don't really "know" they exist, unless you mean that in an existential sense... :)

[Sativarg]

Re:"Failure to Launch"

  Quote

Director:Tom Dey

Writers (WGA):Tom J. Astle (written by) & Matt Ember (written by)

Release Date:10 March 2006 (USA) more view trailer

Genre:Comedy / Romance more

Tagline:

• To leave the nest, some men just need a little push.
  

Plot Outline:

• A thirtysomething slacker suspects his parents of setting him up with his dream girl so he'll finally vacate their home more
  

Thanks Jumonji I'll have to check out that film. And the real responsibilities are very important the challenge or right of transition has to be real and important to the individual and the consequences of failure must have impact. But in a free society it may not be possible to impose strict rules that can be enforced in a way that truly matters to an adolescent.

The special intervention camps for troubled teens may have some of the right elements to provide a life changing experience. Perhaps by taking the best elements from the cultures referenced in my OP and combining them with the best aspects of the modern intervention camps; a range of options might be made available for families that want this type of experience.

 

The Secular coming of age ceremonies and most Religious initiation rites seem to be just an extention of study and not much more meaningful than school. I believe that a right of passage must be a true test of a person. It has to have deep meaning and lasting consequences.

 

RE: The knowledge of our death:

Yes Jumonji facing death Is a big part of many of the traditional rights of passage and perhaps that is the meat of what I mean by true or real consequences. For the experience to approach the efficacy of the

Vision quest

or the other

Coming of age rites

the subject must be fully engaged in he experience and it must fit into that persons belief system.

 

It seems that in many cultures the traditional rights of passage have been exclusive to young men and that women are not allowed to participate. I don't think that is right and fitting in todays society. Perhaps It is not right period. Other rituals imposed on women in my limited view are just plain cruelty and, IMO,do not fit in the spirit of this discussion.

Jumonji: Japanese word meaning "cross"?

 

 

  "ninja_lord666:" said:

What about knowing who we are? We know we're animals, and we know we evolved from animals. Animals don't know that. They just know that they exist.

Yes good point ninja_lord666, who are we. That has to fall into the realm of belief systems to a certain point. The word "know" is a good place to focus for a moment. I say I know that I am 6 feet tall. But, until I have tested that fact to its fullest extent by leaping and crouching under and lying on a surface and ducking an opponents blow, I do not KNOW that I am 6 feet tall and that my reach is 3 feet from my core and How this is Important. Perhaps a good true right of passage should help us truly KNOW how to KNOW ourselves.

 

I am rambaling:

As I research this subject I keep finding more I want to convey here and I am rambaling> Sorry I need to get some coffee and rearrange my thoughts...

[Marcus Wolfe]

Man is an animal.

 

To embrace the beast within is to accept it's existence and even learn to let your darkside out while still being in control. One must learn not only to be bad, but when to be bad how to keep it in check.

[Jumonji]

  Sativarg said:

...

Jumonji: Japanese word meaning "cross"?

...

 

Very Good! You're the first person I've ever had to pick up on that. "Jumonji no kamae: is used in American Ninjutsu to refer to an aggressive attack stance with your arms crossed. It's the first position in Fire Mode (of the 5 combat modes, water, wind, fire, earth, and void.) I started using that name online when I was awarded my black belt. :)

 

-Jumonji