Becoming a Thane or guild leader has meaning (spoilers)

[CampanaAliquanta]

The alternative title to this thread would be How I Spent An Entire Thursday Afternoon. If you have a free afternoon to waste yourself, you're welcome to read the full version...if not, go to the TL;DR version at the bottom of the post.

 

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So anyway, this is really just theory crafting. It's actually multiple mods in one, and is a huge amount of work that would require more than one person, plus you would need an indepth knowledge of a large number of quests in the game. It's currently beyond my abilities and experience, and I have a couple of other things I want to do first, but there's no reason not to discuss ideas while we wait for the CK.

 

The other disclaimer is that since I have no prior experience of modding I have no idea how much of this is feasible. What I've tried to do is think about how things can be tweaked or tacked onto existing systems in the game, or added in without requiring huge amounts of modelling, texturing, animation and dialogue. Some feedback on this would be appreciated.

 

Spoilers - the quests discussed below are the ones that lead you to becoming thane at Whiterun and Solitude, the quest to view the museum and the College of Mages main questline.

 

FULL VERSION

 

 

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1. Becoming a thane via land ownership

 

Contents

1. Intro
   
2. How could this be integrated into the game with a minimum of assets?
   
3. How would the mini game work?
   
4. Issues
   

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1.1 Intro

 

Influence and power in a society like Skyrim's is based on land ownership. Yet the requirement for becoming a Thane in Solitude - the capital city no less - is merely buying a house and helping out a few people. In medieval times if a "ceorl throve, so that he had fully five hides of his own land, church and kitchen, bellhouse and burh-gate-seat, and special duty in the king's hail, then was he thenceforth of thegn-right worthy." [source] (a hide is equivalent to a single small farm). Therefore, before you even get a whiff of thane-ship you should at least own more than one village house/farm - not as a player owned house, but as a landlord.

 

There are plenty of small-holdings scattered about that could acknowledge you as the landowner if you bought their property from another thane or a jarl trying to raise funds.

 

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1.2 How could this be integrated into the game with a minimum of assets?

 

I think the easiest way to implement this would be to require the player to become landlord of certain properties within the area where they wish to become thane. So for instance you would need to become landlord of properties in the villages surrounding Solitude in order for Queen whatshername to give you the quest to become a thane there. The sales could be handled through the steward (although you'd need to add/replace the voiced dialogue).

 

This requirement can be introduced into the world via noticeboards that have smallholdings listed for sale (requiring a model of a noticeboard and notices pinned to it).

 

Each different thane-ship the game offers would have to be handled slightly differently. For instance, at Whiterun you might get the thane-ship first, and then the steward could then offer to sell you some smallholdings to purchase as well as Breezeholm. Not sure how you would incentivise the purchase of small-holdings though. Or possibly the small-holdings could be granted as rewards for the "clearing-out bandit quests" offered in the town, instead of gold.

 

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1.3 How would the mini game work?

 

As a landlord you would then have to pay a tax (in hides or gold or crops) to the local jarl, which you could then tax from your villagers. This wouldn't need any complicated extra NPCs, it could be run off a series of letters that are periodically delivered by courier e.g. You owe 700 gold in tax to Jarl X, or You receive 100g in tax from NPC Y plus an option to send letters e.g. Send tax, Send demand for tax etc.

 

Or you could ste...er, borrow the idea from the fantastic little merchant shop mod, where business is conducted via a desk with objects and letters on it - clicking on item such as a letter brings up an option window where you can choose to send demands for tax, or pay tax or whatever (would need a desk model that could be added to the various player homes).

 

In the later stages of the mod, minor quest lines could be implemented, in which you either help your ceorls from bandits/wild animals, and serve your jarl by furthering his interests in Skyrim. Maybe you could just co-opt existing quests, where the jarl sends you to a certain place where another quest is triggered e.g. the Mehrune's Razor quest. Instead of randomly receiving an advert for a museum opening (via courier...really??) your jarl could send you to investigate the musuem. (Note: I haven't completed this quest myself, so I don't know if the bizarre courier introduction is actually explained away later, or if it really is as contrived as it first appears).

 

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1.4 Issues

 

One issue is that it could make owning a house a little slower. By the time I bought Breezeholm my inventory was clogged to the brim with various things I couldn't bear to drop (for fear of them not being there when I came back). It would have been great to be able to rent a chest somewhere to store stuff, and that would have alleviated the severe need to own a house.

 

Implementing a way to rent a room long term at an inn, and thus set the chest in the room as player owned for the duration of the rental period, would be great. Failing that, an option to buy rental space from a shop owner would also be useful - a sort of medieval version of a bank deposit box.

 

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2. Bringing meaning to your role as a guild leader

 

Contents

1. Intro
   
2. Attending the college as a student
   
3. The journey
   
4. Being the archmage (or any other guild leader)
   
5. Making it a mini game - responsibilities and privileges
   
6. Additional issues
   

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2.1 Intro

 

The only guild leadership quest I completed was for Archmage, so I'll base my examples on that. I don't know if the other guild positions are as empty as the archmage one, but I assume so.

 

Now, there is already a planned revamp for the College that is a lot more extensive than the ideas I've listed below. While there is some overlap I think some of these ideas could be complementary to that mod though, since the focus is somewhat different.

 

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2.2 Attending the college as a student

 

I don't like the way you pay a minimum fee to gain entry to the college that's barely higher than the price of a few loaves of bread, yet once you get into the college you have to fork out considerably more to individual tutors to level your magic skills. The fee for attending should be a lot higher, and should be a weekly or monthly fee rather than a single entrance fee. It should also entitle you to level your magic skills to a certain extent with tutors. There could also be the optioin of paying tutors for "extra tuition" to level your skills beyond the amount covered by the college fees.

 

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2.3 The journey

 

The jump from student to Archmage was completely jarring and contrived (Oh Campana, you're the only person who can fulfil this role, despite the fact that we have a full faculty of experienced mages and you're just a student who enrolled a few weeks ago).

 

1) GRADUATION (optional): Add an optional examination and graduation early on in the questline. The requirements for being able to take the examination would be to have levelled up a certain amount of your magic skills by speaking to the tutors. Maybe one of the tasks in the main quest could take the place of the examination e.g. "If you fulfil this task for the college we will reward you by recognising you as a full mage" or you could add in a test with one member of the faculty where you have to lob spells at a practice dummy. Or give the player an option to bribe their way to graduation. On completing the graudation requirements the player would then be presented with a graduation scroll and a set of robes that have slightly higher stats than the student robes you were given.

 

2) Following the graduation there could be three options:

 

a) STUDENT: continue investigating the orb as a student. From this period on, you would be tasked with investigating the orb as your student thesis, and the questline would not change, but at the end one of the tutors would be given the role of Archmage. Either the absent-minded one that first takes you into the ruins where you find the orb, or the ambitious dark elf who wants to become Archmage herself (sorry I'm useless with names, I can't remember what they're called). You would be given graduation robes with lesser stats instead of the Archmage robe.

 

a) TUTOR: The second option is to sign on as a teacher on the faculty. At this point you would receive a tutor robe with better stats than the graduation or student robe, but lesser stats than the archmage robe. Perhaps the quests where you help your fellow students could be transferred to this stage, where you have been assigned as their tutor. At this point you continue on the main questline, trying to find out more about the orb thing, and this fills the role of your doctorate. For this option you would end up as the archmage.

 

b) INDEPENDENT: The third option is to accept the main questline as an independent contractor. As with this the student option, you would be able to continue and finish the main questline, but would not be given the role of Archmage at the end.

 

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2.4 Being the archmage (or any other guild leader)

 

The second major issue with the college of mages quest, is that once you actually get there the role of archmage is empty and meaningless. I don't know if I'm missing something, or if maybe talking to all the college NPCs will divulge lots of hidden quests that would fulfil this, but even if they did...

 

No-one outside of the college/guild acknowledges your title. As head of one of these organisations you should be a powerful political individual in Skyrim, or at least influential, and engaged in correspondence with other colleges, jarls, independent mages, as well as having a host of responsibilities you need to fulfil.

 

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2.5 Making it a mini game - responsibilities and privileges

 

So the position of archmage would have the responsibilities and privileges listed below. For the fighters guild this could be adjusted to things relevant to fighters (bandits instead of necromancers etc).

 

• Control of the guild/college revenue - Student fees. In addition the denizens of Skyrim should be paying for magical services e.g. enchanted items, ridding places of magical pests, dealing with necromancers etc. This should bring in a large amount of revenue to the college.
  
• Paying wages - each tutor should be paid a wage (part of the revenue should also go to paying the player in their role as Archmage)
  
• Housing students and faculty - there should be daily fuel and food costs, as well as servant wages, plus expenditure on magical equipment and ingredients
  
• Research - this idea was introduced in this thread (although subsequently abandoned) but I think it makes sense. Again, quests like Mehrune's Razor could be co-opted as part of the Archmage's responsibility to investigate.
  
• Magical services - co-opt some of the quests that involve necromancers e.g. you receive a letter from Falk Firebeard asking you to investigate "funny" happenings at the mine (I can't remember the name of it) where you find that cult dedicated to resurrecting Potema. The payment would then go to the college rather than directly to you.
  

 

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2.6 Additional issues

 

Also, should you be able to become archmage without relinquishing your position as thane elsewhere? And should you be able to become head of more than one guild?

 

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For the roles you can take in game, add the following requirements and minigames:

 

Thane

Requirement: purchase smallholdings in the area the jarl controls (e.g. small farms) and become the landlord

Minigame: receive and send letters/demands relating to tax payments from you to the jarl, and payments to you from the smallholdings. Co-opt existing quests e.g. Mehrune's Razor and tie it in as a task where your jarl sends you to investigate.

 

Guild leader (using archmage as an example)

Requirement: graduate and become a faculty member/tutor prior to completing the main questline. If this option is chosen the player can subsequently become archmage. If not, the player performs the role of an independent mage paid by the college to investigate the orb thing and is not offered the position of archmage at the end.

Mini-game: as archmage you receive the revenue for the college, and are responsible for paying wages and invoices for food and fuel. Additionally existing quest lines are co-opted where you are sent requests asking you to investigate this or that as the archmage e.g. Mehrune's Razor or the one to defeat the cultists trying to raise Potema.

 

Also, you shouldn't be able to become head of more than one guild without relinquishing your post at another.

 

See the full version for more details :tongue:

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2011 by CampanaAliquanta