Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development

[demonicvampiregirl]

 

In response to post #43772610.

 

 

 

demonicvampiregirl wrote:

Can someone explain to me a bit the differences between NMM and SMO? I get one is more advanced but I only use NMM for Skyrim (and Skyrim SE once I get a video card strong enough for it) and pretty much only use USLEEP for it. I may wind up modding more in the future but for right now, want to just keep it simple and really hope that next gen NMM is as simple as the current one. I've never been good at manually modding, I tend to always screw it up somehow. >_< So it is kind of worrying that both are now being combined into one.

NMM was a simple install and go manager but it would install it all to the "data" folder on your HDD so install order was VERY important so you wouldn't overwrite mods incorrectly, this would/could change some of the core files and if you messed this up usually it ended up with a reinstall.

MO used a virtual data folder to keep your vanilla data folder...well vanilla. If something broke skyrim all you had to do was disable the problem mod and skyrim would work fine. MO would treat each mod separately when you installed them, only ever overwriting stuff when you started the game. If something was wrong with the order you installed them you just needed to drag and drop them in the correct order and restart your game. no reinstalling of mods needed. It has indicators in the UI to tell you whats overwriting what.

I know there is a lot more but after having to redownload/reinstall skyrim 3 times with NMM this is the biggest benifit i got from MO.

 

 

So this would kind of eliminate the need for LOOT?

[hati39]

In response to post #43785770.

demonicvampiregirl wrote:

 

In response to post #43772610.

demonicvampiregirl wrote:

Can someone explain to me a bit the differences between NMM and SMO? I get one is more advanced but I only use NMM for Skyrim (and Skyrim SE once I get a video card strong enough for it) and pretty much only use USLEEP for it. I may wind up modding more in the future but for right now, want to just keep it simple and really hope that next gen NMM is as simple as the current one. I've never been good at manually modding, I tend to always screw it up somehow. >_< So it is kind of worrying that both are now being combined into one.

NMM was a simple install and go manager but it would install it all to the "data" folder on your HDD so install order was VERY important so you wouldn't overwrite mods incorrectly, this would/could change some of the core files and if you messed this up usually it ended up with a reinstall.
MO used a virtual data folder to keep your vanilla data folder...well vanilla. If something broke skyrim all you had to do was disable the problem mod and skyrim would work fine. MO would treat each mod separately when you installed them, only ever overwriting stuff when you started the game. If something was wrong with the order you installed them you just needed to drag and drop them in the correct order and restart your game. no reinstalling of mods needed. It has indicators in the UI to tell you whats overwriting what.
I know there is a lot more but after having to redownload/reinstall skyrim 3 times with NMM this is the biggest benifit i got from MO.

 

 

So this would kind of eliminate the need for LOOT?

No. However, LOOT is integrated in MO. And because your data folder is virtual when using MO you have to integrate every tool into MO, eg if MO is not running, your creation kit will not find any file to load (exept the main esm files skyrim.esm and the DLCs). LOOT just checks the dependencies of your plugins and has a look to a masterlist with some metadata of each plugin.

But first: LOOT is not perfect. The more mods you use the more sortings are possible, but LOOT has to choose only one, which is not always the correct one or the one that meets your suggestions. That's mainly because the masterlist cannot be complete, it needs community support to be filled. It is good for all the well known standard mods like smim, but the more plugins you have and the more exclusive they are the more LOOT needs your help.

The second thing is: LOOT only handles plugins. There are thousands of mods that don't use plugins, eg texture replacement mods. These mods add hundereds of loose files to your data directory (in fact all these loose files already exist in the main esm files but will be overwritten with these loose files). So if you install Skyrim HD you'll find a thousand or so new files in your data folder. If you install Perfect Whiterun after that, it will overwrite a lot of files you just installed with Skyrim HD. Now assume, you like your new perfect Whiterun overall, but what you don't like is, that a lot of items you find all over Skyrim now are no longer consistent, eg the barrels, fences, roofs, whatever have another look in Whiterun but in all other sites in Skyrim. You need to change the install order to change that. As long as you have only these two mods there are several solutions of your problem, like simply uninstall both and reinstall in the correct order. But if you have 100 mods that replace textures, it's close to impossible to do that.

In MO you simply click&drag the Perfect Whiterun mod ahead of Skyrim HD. Problem solved. But that's not all. Let's assume, you want to have consistent barrels all over Skyrim but why shouldn't the roofs be exclusive? In that case you could keep your install order, right click the Perfect Whiterun mod and have a look to Conflicts tab of the information dialoge windows of the mod. As the name implies you find two lists, one list of files provided by the mod and the names of the mods that will be overwritten, a second list of files that will be overwritten by other mods plus the name of these mods. You now can select single files and hide them to Skyrim, in our case the texture for the barrels. The result is a Perfect Whiterun with the barrels of Skyrim HD. Problem solved.

I used texture replacement mods as an easy to understand example. I'm even not sure whether the two mods replace any barrels (because most people use SMIM for this kind of stuff anyway). And of course the game is still playable with any barrel texture. But there are much more mods then only texture replacer. Some expand Skyrim, change the gameplay, quests or the UI, often they use, add or replace scripts to do that. You can easily imagine that something fatal can happen if eg two mods confict in such a more essential module than a texture.

[hati39]

In response to post #43600675. #43602615, #43640040, #43670780 are all replies on the same post.

hati39 wrote: Unfortunately I never got an answer to my posting on 19 Oct 2016, and there seem to be more people interested to:

Any idea or perhaps a timeline from the devs about what period we are talking about? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

Just because the day comes closer when I have to decide whether I start modding manually or wait for a tool.

Kuliator wrote: As a programmer, it's quite difficult to give an approximate release date, even harder if it is something this big from scratch, so wait a month, and probably they would have an idea of how much time this will take so they give us a date.

hati39 wrote: Oh yes, I know, I'm far from asking for a release date. And under normal circumstances I wouldn't ask. But in less than 2 hours my dl is ready and I'm pretty sure that there will be mods I'm desperalety missing.

So if they say, "we can use parts of the code and are sure to have an alpha ready in a few weeks", I would wait for a while.
But if they say, "we are only 2 coders and really create from scratch using new tools we are not familiar with, we may could present a pre-alpha late 2017", I would start the good old manual way, with all it's extra work and disk space and waiting time for copying 20gig to external hds before overwriting half of the games data etc ;)

However, perhaps after 2 weeks they might had one or the other meeting and could at least give a hint if we are talking about 2 weeks or 2 years.

Imperializer wrote: You can continue to use NMM or MO, its not like suddenly today they broke. The new manager likely won't come out for another couple months, but when it does you could spend an hour or two putting your mods back together

No, I cannot. MO does not support 64bit versions of Bethesdas engine. And putting together 526 mods in a working order is not done in "an hour or two".

[Dukoth]

the mention of plugins got me excited, the ability to expand the programs capabilities with third party apps is always a huge benefit,

 

will you be incorporating the virtual install feature of MO, that (more than anything else) has been the reason a lot of people use it, it makes huge mod lists a lot less painful to deal with (though NMM had a better organizing list)

 

wow look at me, I almost look like I know what I'm talking about :D

[MaSt3RofDraGOns]

NMM and it's predecessors have had a good run, but it's time for something new. You can only go so far with old code before it's time to completely overhaul it or start fresh. I feel a fresh start is usually the better option.

 

That said I can't thank the creators enough for these tools. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long, but I understand these things take time.

[Quizzmet]

I am a very sentimental person, and as such I hate to see Mod Organizer go. That said, I'm glad to see that the goal is to create a manager as advanced as MO for those that want it to be.

 

Can't wait for more news!

[MikeWhitfield]

Great news. Mod Organizer's basic design is sooo much better for people who run lots of mods in changing combinations. I do have some concern though that trying to make one manager that will work for every game developer and engine will result in a manager that will never quite be ready. Perhaps with modern modular construction, you can get it operational for Bethesda (or Unreal, or whatever) and socket in other engines as separate, sequential modules?

 

Regardless, congrats on the new hire and thanks for taking such a radical step. One can only move forward so far while dragging one's entire history. And that said, I too thank you for the site and the tools we've had to date. Haven't used any mod managers in a couple years, but NMM served me very well over the years.

 

MW

Edited November 2, 2016 by MikeWhitfield

[MrJoseCuervo]

Mod Organizer no longer allows updating through the program. Gee Thanks. Edited November 2, 2016 by MrJoseCuervo

[3st90]

In response to post #43927410.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: Mod Organizer no longer allows updating through the program. Gee Thanks.

What's the point, if Mod Manager isn't going to be updated in the first place?

[Giltintur]

In response to post #43600675. #43602615, #43640040, #43670780, #43794730 are all replies on the same post.

hati39 wrote: Unfortunately I never got an answer to my posting on 19 Oct 2016, and there seem to be more people interested to:

Any idea or perhaps a timeline from the devs about what period we are talking about? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

Just because the day comes closer when I have to decide whether I start modding manually or wait for a tool.

Kuliator wrote: As a programmer, it's quite difficult to give an approximate release date, even harder if it is something this big from scratch, so wait a month, and probably they would have an idea of how much time this will take so they give us a date.

hati39 wrote: Oh yes, I know, I'm far from asking for a release date. And under normal circumstances I wouldn't ask. But in less than 2 hours my dl is ready and I'm pretty sure that there will be mods I'm desperalety missing.

So if they say, "we can use parts of the code and are sure to have an alpha ready in a few weeks", I would wait for a while.
But if they say, "we are only 2 coders and really create from scratch using new tools we are not familiar with, we may could present a pre-alpha late 2017", I would start the good old manual way, with all it's extra work and disk space and waiting time for copying 20gig to external hds before overwriting half of the games data etc ;)

However, perhaps after 2 weeks they might had one or the other meeting and could at least give a hint if we are talking about 2 weeks or 2 years.

Imperializer wrote: You can continue to use NMM or MO, its not like suddenly today they broke. The new manager likely won't come out for another couple months, but when it does you could spend an hour or two putting your mods back together

hati39 wrote: No, I cannot. MO does not support 64bit versions of Bethesdas engine. And putting together 526 mods in a working order is not done in "an hour or two".

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1725