Stormcloak vs Legion

[Lehcar]

Is there ANYONE that's played the Stormcloak side of the civil war questline yet? I've played and finished the Legion side, it was kinda disappointing once the questline ended but playing it was pretty fun.

 

I'd like to see what the Stormcloak side of the quest is like just for the sake of it but...

 

 

I just can't seem to motivate myself to side with them, especially because of that terribly disheartening and damning evidence you find in the Thalmor embassy that Ulfric is actually working for them. He's got all of these people standing behind him, believing that in siding with him they are standing against the Thalmor, when in truth they are actually helping them. Meaning he's got all of these people believing a complete lie, and has been stringing them along on false hope all along. The entire thing is an elaborate Thalmor plot, and Ulfric is their pawn. He's not only a traitor to the Empire, but he is a traitor to all of these people who've risked and sacrificed their lives for him. All along it's all been a plot and a lie! That's just totally awful! How come exposing him or confronting him with the evidence isn't an option?!

 

 

Can anyone tell me a little about what happens when you side with the them?

 

 

[sara1010p]

I have sided with the Stormcloaks one time since playing, once defeating the legion in Solitude, I haven't seen any Thalmor anywhere, whereas before I saw them on the roads often. I was expecting to see Ulfric become High King, but he didn't. Other than that not much difference in either ending I saw. Both sides make speeches. Then things just go back to normal, like nothing happened. Edited December 12, 2011 by sara1010p

[MericDefen]

I don't really understand what possible motive I could have for siding with the Empire.. I mean, one side tries to chop my head off, one side doesn't. Seems like a no brainer to me..

[R3ignlasting]

If it wasn't for a real player, the stormcloaks would have won the war, IMO. But, I still think the stormcloaks are the better side, better colors, better region, etc.

[Khorak]

If you'd read those Thalmor documents properly, you'd have worked out that Ulfric isn't explicitly working for the Thalmor. He was considered unco-operative and some sort of Thalmor contact during the Markarth Incident caused him to become even more antagonistic to them. His entire game plan is "f*** the Thalmor in the face", and after winning the Civil War when you ask his plans he'll be loading for bear. Big, yellow bears from Summerset Isle. When the Thalmor say he is an asset, they mean this insofar as the current status of the civil war is perfect for them.

 

Ultimately, the Thalmor documents make one thing clear; you are going to utterly, utterly sodomise their plans. They don't want anyone to win the civil war, they need it to be ongoing. This plan would have worked, the civil war would have dragged on for years (NPC's here and there will attest to this in their ambient and scripted dialogue). They were not expecting the almighty Dovahkiin to appear out of nowhere, take one side to almost instant, crushing victory, turn Alduin himself into chunky salsa, generally murder absolutely every single bandit, ancient evil, rogue necromancer and any other aspiring bad guy across the length and breadth of the land, then, presumably, roll around in a colossal mountain of money somewhere slightly west of Whiterun (the only bit flat enough to build a new mountain).

 

Whichever side you picked, the Thalmor are stuffed. That's what the documents should make clear. Either side winning sucks for them. If the Empire win, it'll be able to consolidate Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win, Skyrim turns into The Land Of Angry Elf Murderers, Led By The Guy We Tortured And Didn't Think This Could Possibly Come Back At Us Until A Screaming, Dragon F****** Death Machine Made Him High King And Thus Untouchable.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Khorak

[Matth85]

If the Stormcloaks win, Skyrim turns into The Land Of Angry Elf Murderers, Led By The Guy We Tortured And Didn't Think This Could Possibly Come Back At Us Until A Screaming, Dragon F****** Death Machine Made Him High King And Thus Untouchable.

There is no way the broken down Skyrim could even tickle the Thalmor. Bring the war to Summerset Isles, and Skyrim is wiped out. We talk about a bunch of people that is on the egde of taking over Tamriel. The Nords are primitive, the elves are not. Healing magic + light armor is tenfold better than a 2 handed and leather armor.

 

If the Stormcloak wins, they are screwed. They need to rebuild, but that leaves Cyrodiil and Hammerfell to be invaded. They could attack, but that means they would be wiped out rather quick.

Ulfric is an idiot, and don't see the bigger picture here. He doesn't have a military tactic, which the Thalmor does. Heck, the Thalmor WANTS the Stormcloak to win, after a hard war. That way they got 2 options open:

A) Take out Cyrodiil or Hammerfell. Keep a line of defense to hold the other province's backup occupied, whilst taking over. Skyrim can't help, since they need to rebuild, and Ulfric couldn't be arsed to help non-Nords.

B) Take out Skyrim. The Stormcloak just broke the Empire. They are almost powerless, and are not allowed to help. Unprepared Nords versus a war. Who will win?

 

Really, the Thalmor got the plan planned out carefully, and Ulfric is playing right into it. There is a reason they didn't want Ulfric dead in the intro. He is a vital piece to taking over the last areas now.

 

were not expecting the almighty Dovahkiin to appear out of nowhere

Even the mighty can fall. It wouldn't take more than 20 men to take down Dovahkiin alone. And no, Ulfric would not let you take an army to help anybody. You are not in power, you are a mere puppet now. Ulfric is power hungry, and will not share.

[bombomb]

Leaders rise and fall. It doesn't matter which side you choose.

 

You choose the Stormcloaks-----> you'll liberate Skyrim from the Empire's rule. However, whose to say Ulfric won't get murdered in a coup? Even so, he's mortal, so eventually he has to die. Ulfric doesn't have children, so there's no direct line of succession. We all know when there's no line of succession in a Kingdom or Empire, a violent struggle for power embrews, and peace is nearly impossible for extended periods of time.

 

 

You choose Imperials----> You'll reunite Skyrim with the Empire. Even so, history has shown Empires rise and fall, so this option just prolongs the inevitable.

 

Either way, 200 years from now, this Civil War will be forgotten and considered a waste for both sides.

Edited December 15, 2011 by bombomb

[Matth85]

Either way, 200 years from now, this Civil War will be forgotten and considered a waste for both sides.

The reason it is a hot topic: About a year after the civil war, be sure the Thalmor will invade.

Can the Empire be splitted when that happens? I do not think so.

 

 

So, either way, in 200 years Tamriel is either as it is now, or ruled by the Thalmor. Civil war might be forgotten, but that is outside of the problem.

[Khorak]

There is no way the broken down Skyrim could even tickle the Thalmor. Bring the war to Summerset Isles, and Skyrim is wiped out. We talk about a bunch of people that is on the egde of taking over Tamriel. The Nords are primitive, the elves are not. Healing magic + light armor is tenfold better than a 2 handed and leather armor.

 

If the Stormcloak wins, they are screwed. They need to rebuild, but that leaves Cyrodiil and Hammerfell to be invaded. They could attack, but that means they would be wiped out rather quick.

Ulfric is an idiot, and don't see the bigger picture here. He doesn't have a military tactic, which the Thalmor does. Heck, the Thalmor WANTS the Stormcloak to win, after a hard war. That way they got 2 options open:

A) Take out Cyrodiil or Hammerfell. Keep a line of defense to hold the other province's backup occupied, whilst taking over. Skyrim can't help, since they need to rebuild, and Ulfric couldn't be arsed to help non-Nords.

B) Take out Skyrim. The Stormcloak just broke the Empire. They are almost powerless, and are not allowed to help. Unprepared Nords versus a war. Who will win?

 

Really, the Thalmor got the plan planned out carefully, and Ulfric is playing right into it. There is a reason they didn't want Ulfric dead in the intro. He is a vital piece to taking over the last areas now.

 

 

Made up lies and conjecture. Flat out. That's all that is. I'm bored of fielding this completely and totally unsupported garbage. Here is the actual reality as given by the Thalmor dossier itself:

 

"Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak

 

As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfrics death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed out overall position in Skyrim....A stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid must be carefully managed."

 

THE THALMOR THEMSELVES STATE THAT THE STORMCLOAKS WINNING SHOULD BE AVOIDED. THIS DOESN'T MATCH UP WITH IDIOT IDEAS THAT SKYRIM WILL SUDDENLY BE WEAK AND VULNERABLE. IF THAT WERE THE CASE THE THALMOR WOULD HELP HIM TO WIN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

 

The Dovahkiin arriving and immediately resolving the situation is disasterous to the Thalmor. EITHER WAY. This isn't a difficult concept. It doesn't just make sense in-universe, it makes sense when constructing the narrative; your players are going to be damned annoyed if it turns out that one of their two choices is a "Ha ha, you wasted hours to ruin everything".

Edited December 15, 2011 by Khorak

[bombomb]

Either way, 200 years from now, this Civil War will be forgotten and considered a waste for both sides.

The reason it is a hot topic: About a year after the civil war, be sure the Thalmor will invade.

Can the Empire be splitted when that happens? I do not think so.

 

 

So, either way, in 200 years Tamriel is either as it is now, or ruled by the Thalmor. Civil war might be forgotten, but that is outside of the problem.

 

 

I doubt the Dragon Born will live to see the outcome of the Civil War, and it's future effects.

 

So, does it even matter? Either side eventually has plans to go war with the Dominion, and possibly the next incarnation of the Dragon Born has to deal with the effects evolving around them

 

Then again, that's up to the creators of the Elder Scroll Series. From the looks of it, they make it seem like no matter what side wins, things are no different....

 

So, I guess it's all up in air

Edited December 15, 2011 by bombomb