Skyrim - Not the next generation RPG

[Brittainy]

I had some very realistic expectations as well.

 

-Turning into a dragon and destroying cities, and then being able to build them with a realistic economy and political simulator.

-Ability to terraform after I turn into a god.

-The ability to turn into a god

-Being able to create a time machine and bring guns back into the world of Elder Scrolls

I expect to see this mod by late January, chop chop!! ;]

 

Like. People honestly do not understand how much work went into what we got in the vanilla Skyrim. And you morons are sitting here like "Meh" It's OKAY.

 

Are you kidding? If you guys think the things you are suggesting are easy...

 

They spent 5-6 years making this game. They didn't do it in ONLY 5-6 years by creating every little thought that entered their brains. The developers probably would've LOVED to do this stuff. But guess what? They have limits and expectations.

 

Stop being ignorant, seriously.

 

I'll stop being ignorant when out-of-date consoles stop dictating what can and can't be done for pc games ^ :happy:

[gigantibyte]

1. Current voice recognition isn't good enough, imagine having to say the same command over and over again until the computer got it, it would be beyond frustrating.

2. I'd like to see more in the way of destructible environments, a system like Red Faction Guerrilla would be good.

3. They done that with Daggerfall and they weren't good, a random dungeon is very unlikely to be as good as a well designed hand built one.

 

1. Voice recognition would be optional, but be prepared to type. Instead of expanding NPC interaction, Skyrim actually took it backwards. Gone is the mini-game in Oblivion that a player can use to raise disposition with an NPC. It wasn't the best system, but least it offered another option to interact. The next generation RPG needs to improve in this area.

 

3. Agree that expert hand crafted will be better than something generated. But my aim would not be to replace those maps, only compliment them. And there are games that generate decent maps.

Edited December 13, 2011 by gigantibyte

[BallsOFyre]

Skyrim, in my opinion, doesn't offer anything truly new or original- it simply is a maturation of a linage of a gaming franchise or concept brought up to todays technological standards. What it does, it does extremely well....but it uses ideas now more than a decade old.

 

Not all that much has changed from Daggerfall, really, outside of the physical looks of things. The basic concepts are still there... and it could be that these concepts are now somewhat dated. I suspect that Bethesda should really consider throwing some money into studying what is possible for the future, and go places where The Elder Scrolls have never been.

 

Yes, I'd love to see real conversation choices that led to more creative and unique places because of my decisions. Bethesda is behind the game curve in this regard. Skyrim, in particular, is very stodgy when it comes to real freedom of speech....and really, there is no longer an excuse for this.

 

I'd like to see a much more destructive or mutable world as well. Stoneshape spells- that says it all.

 

A more "realistic" setting, with forced eating and drinking and harsh death settings would not be hard to incorporate. Sure, modders do this anyways- but it is a desirable feature that a whole section of the core base fans would greatly support and appreciate.

 

Bethesda has let the results of player's moral choices slip away in Skyrim; rather than focusing on having the character's actions have meaning, the designers have fallen back on the games good looks and the plotline holding up the game's lack of a conscience. I think this definately hurts the roleplaying aspects of the game, and there is no good excuse for this.

 

Housing is weak in Bethesda's games. Being able to make choices- the color carpet you want, the size rooms you need- where your furniture sits- these are important elements ina roleplaying game where your "HOME" defines your character. With todays technology, there is no excuse for the preset homes in Skyrim- it's lazy design work that they get away with because of sticking to the traditions of past games where you couldn't pull off certain things.

 

I also think it's time for Bethesda to take on an online-play game. How great would an Elder Scrolls Game be if more than just you were actually alive?

 

Don't get me wrong, Skyrim, like all of the ES games before it, is fun and interesting. It just is a 1990's concept that needs retooling for the times we live in, to give us what todays technology really has to offer gamers.

 

Just my 2 gold pieces on the subject.

Balls

[Lachdonin]

I agree with Roltak. What you seem to be discribing as the 'next generation RPG' is a massive technological leap.

 

To date we do not have ANY adaptive and responcive AI systems. The most advanced AI's are just programmed with thousands of possible responces, and still crap out when you give them a problem their not programmed with an answer to. As such, point 1 is a technical impossiblity, and will be for at least 20 years (According to the timetable of the leading AI research labs). Without adaptive programming and the ability to actually reason, you couldn't have a completely interactive and destructable environment without literally billions of pre-programmed responces. You'd have to previously set what an NPC's responce would be to every single destroyed tree within the game, or at the least within a particular radius of where he lives. THe amound of programming would be ludicris, and we'd probably have real AI's before they finished with the coding.

 

Part 3 is doable. In fact, in Arena they only had about 7 pre-set dungeions, and something like 30 random ones. However, as Roltak said, you couldn't use that dynamic for everything. Some would have to remain pre-generated because they tell an internal story. the odd 'dank cave' or 'musty crypt' would be fine, but for that degree of exploration adn discovery we'd probably have to revert to the Arena/Daggerfall style of gaming, and again the time it would take to make those games would be astronomical.

 

That said, IF such a game came out in the next year (Or the next decade for that matter) i wouldn't hesitate to pay $1000 for it. Simply because it would be a marvel of technological acheivement.

[Handofbane]

AI response to destructible environment is absolutely possible, and actually can be seen in action in an indie game right now - given it is not fully 3D like Skyrim, but such things are also being worked into the 3D followup to that game. Take a look at Haven & Hearth - and its major studio followup Salem. Given H&H is a java based game, but pretty much every tree can be chopped down, permanently, houses and walls can be built and destroyed (and it is a full blown open-PvP game, so sieges can happen). Salem is made by the same duo that made H&H along with many other developers from Paradox Interactive (Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, etc), and expected to have many of the features H&H had in a more 3D environment than the top-down sprite based version that H&H had.

[Lachdonin]

Yes, destructable environments are doable, and have been done many times, but the problem is having NPC's react to that change in a beleivable way. You don't want guards patrolling the walls to fall to their deaths every time they come to the destroyed section, do you? Simple games are a lot easier to create such reaction in because the range of expression and interactions remains limited. A java based game simply does not have the degree of interaction as Skyrim, nor does it have the basic AI complexity governing those actions. Its somewhat ironic that the more advanced the AI, the less possible such actions are, at least until you hit a particular critical mass.

 

As for the speech thing... I have yet to find a game where i couldn't think of a better thing to say than the options i was given in at least 50% of the conversations. Even Biowares games leave a bad taste in my diplomatic mouth, and they are widely regarded as the forerunner in conversational choice. There is no game on the market which gives you a realistic conversation system. It just isn't possible.

 

Skyrim may indeed be limited in its choice, but saying it's falling behind is an absurd assertion. It's running the middle of the field right now, and TES games have done so for over a decade.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Lachdonin

[gigantibyte]

....but the problem is having NPC's react to that change in a beleivable way. You don't want guards patrolling the walls to fall to their deaths every time they come to the destroyed section, do you?

 

Well then, since it is impossible to program every possibility, we just need NPCs that could learn, don't we? They could even belong to a collective intelligence. NPC dies because of large hole, all other NPCs now avoid hole. My only problem is figuring out what to tell them when they start pondering the nature of their own existence.

Edited December 13, 2011 by gigantibyte

[Handofbane]

Tell them whatever you like, just make sure you stop hanging around any friends you may have named John or Sarah Connor.

[BallsOFyre]

Lachdonin said- "As for the speech thing... I have yet to find a game where i couldn't think of a better thing to say than the options i was given in at least 50% of the conversations. Even Biowares games leave a bad taste in my diplomatic mouth, and they are widely regarded as the forerunner in conversational choice. There is no game on the market which gives you a realistic conversation system. It just isn't possible.

 

Skyrim may indeed be limited in its choice, but saying it's falling behind is an absurd assertion. It's running the middle of the field right now, and TES games have done so for over a decade."

 

What is absurd is Skyrim's tendency to have ZERO conversational choices for the player in a great number of it's quests, when it's clearly a case of there being specific and obvious moral implications in the choice made.

 

I go to Riften, and talk to a merchant in the city center while searching for the old hero Esberth from the Blades. He wants to enlist me in driving some other merchant I don't know out of business in a sneaky fashion. My character is given the quest WITHOUT being asked if I will do it. I don't have the luxury of telling him to go to hell at all....the game assumes my character is apparently no good, and will accept. My only in game choice is to take the guy up on it.

 

kyrim isn't just FALLING BEHIND in it's roleplaying conversations....it is downright negligent in even offering a "choice 1" or "choice 2" option in a great many conversations that are important in defining the basic character you play.

 

So, yeah. Skyrim with it's no choice at all conversation trees seriously falls behind in offering a modern game where your character gets to make meaningful decisions about his moral stance in a great many instances, and there really isnt any excuse for this at all.

[Brittainy]

Skyrim, in my opinion, doesn't offer anything truly new or original- it simply is a maturation of a linage of a gaming franchise or concept brought up to todays technological standards. What it does, it does extremely well....but it uses ideas now more than a decade old.

 

Not all that much has changed from Daggerfall, really, outside of the physical looks of things. The basic concepts are still there... and it could be that these concepts are now somewhat dated. I suspect that Bethesda should really consider throwing some money into studying what is possible for the future, and go places where The Elder Scrolls have never been.

 

Yes, I'd love to see real conversation choices that led to more creative and unique places because of my decisions. Bethesda is behind the game curve in this regard. Skyrim, in particular, is very stodgy when it comes to real freedom of speech....and really, there is no longer an excuse for this.

 

I'd like to see a much more destructive or mutable world as well. Stoneshape spells- that says it all.

 

A more "realistic" setting, with forced eating and drinking and harsh death settings would not be hard to incorporate. Sure, modders do this anyways- but it is a desirable feature that a whole section of the core base fans would greatly support and appreciate.

 

Bethesda has let the results of player's moral choices slip away in Skyrim; rather than focusing on having the character's actions have meaning, the designers have fallen back on the games good looks and the plotline holding up the game's lack of a conscience. I think this definately hurts the roleplaying aspects of the game, and there is no good excuse for this.

 

Housing is weak in Bethesda's games. Being able to make choices- the color carpet you want, the size rooms you need- where your furniture sits- these are important elements ina roleplaying game where your "HOME" defines your character. With todays technology, there is no excuse for the preset homes in Skyrim- it's lazy design work that they get away with because of sticking to the traditions of past games where you couldn't pull off certain things.

 

I also think it's time for Bethesda to take on an online-play game. How great would an Elder Scrolls Game be if more than just you were actually alive?

 

Don't get me wrong, Skyrim, like all of the ES games before it, is fun and interesting. It just is a 1990's concept that needs retooling for the times we live in, to give us what todays technology really has to offer gamers.

 

Just my 2 gold pieces on the subject.

Balls

 

^ Nailed it :thumbsup: