Qwinn´s Ultimate DAO Fixpack v3 (no longer beta!)

[darthbdaman]

I don't personally care either way. This is a fix mod and this isn't a bug fix, at least not really. It's an improvement certainly, and I think that it can be justified as fixing an oversight, especially if done properly. I don't like getting shitty rewards when I do stuff out of order, and in most cases that doesn't happen. Redlciffe isn't particularly easier than other areas, except Orzammar which is the noted exception. I don't see any reason why unique rewards don't scale, when most non-unique items do. I don't think the static rewards really suit the design philosophy of the game. They basically just act as punishment for not doing things in the correct order, despite their not being one. The only downside I see is that people who were using low level uniques for character's that couldn't normally equip items of that type will have to plan their playthroughs better. I don't see that as a big loss. I would rather that intended play styles be supported better. This still allows getting the lower level versions, but it requires better planning, which is fine by me.

[Thandal]

Yeah, I really don't care too much about this-or-that specific item because I've completed all the DLC, so I start the game with the Reaper's Cudgel that I sell to the Quartermaster at Ostagar for 440+ gp and never look back! :cool:

 

So whatever you decide, Qwinn, is fine by me. (Actually, that's pretty much my response to all these debates! :laugh: )

[AdenYeshua]

Yeah, I really don't care too much about this-or-that specific item because I've completed all the DLC, so I start the game with the Reaper's Cudgel that I sell to the Quartermaster at Ostagar for 440+ gp and never look back! :cool:

 

So whatever you decide, Qwinn, is fine by me. (Actually, that's pretty much my response to all these debates! :laugh: )

You kind of cut to the root of the issue on balance, balance questions should be thrown out a window. The player can get easy access to the best most expensive equipment in the game as soon as they load.

[Qwinn]

Despite it being a 7 year old game, believe it or not, there are still people picking it up now for the first time who don't have that access (and even I don't have the cudgel yet!). So I'm not ignoring balance for their sake. That said, balance isn't my concern here, not directly. My issue with these items, as I noted, is that they're implausibly weak in a way that breaks Willing Suspension of Disbelief, which is always important. When Owen awards his armor, and Oghren says "Wow, that's phat!", a typical player will say "Cool!" and open inventory to see his prize - that's the hope in a game meant to be fun, anyway. When the prize is that sad, though, not only is it disappointing after the hype, it makes Oghren seem an idiot, and it jars you out of the WSoD required for immersion in an RPG. When that effect is severe enough, it rises to the level of broken in my view. It's much more about that, to me, than concerns about balance.

 

The item doesn't even have to become good enough to be preferable to other items... I don't care if in the end it gets sold or given to Leliana. I think even if it comes out Dragonbone, Oghren still has plenty of better options just because the armor is only Medium, which is never going to be preferable for a front line fighter. It just has to be reasonable enough to not to make a player who was just told how awesome it is from thinking "WTF?!?! That doesn't even make sense" when he looks at it. Scaling it isn't going to make it actually good for Oghren to use, but it will at least remove one big reason to groan upon looking at it.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

If you send Irving into the fade: When speaking to the Arl, Irving will speak a line that was obviously meant for Eamon (“I... should trust you? I should…”) which now makes no sense. They basically screwed up and accidentally had the wrong voice actor record the line. It could be solved by replacing it with a similar line from Wynne’s dialogue branch (“Yes, I... I trust you. We must help my son.”). Wynne and Irving have very similar lines, so that could work.

RE041: Fade: If Irving enters the Fade and talks to Arl Eamon there, a line that was meant to be voiced and spoken by Arl Eamon was instead voiced and spoken by Irving. Fixed. Thanks to Totalbalance of the Nexus forums for making me aware of this one and for suggesting a workable solution.

 

When you enter Howe’s estate while disguised, an exchange between one of the cooks and Erlina is supposed to play (“Erlina, where have you been? ”) Instead she’ll give one one of the random barks, and you have to click on the cooks to get the exchange. (Also, what’s with the weird “immersive buckets” exchange? Is that even in the game?)

Eh. I do see the scripting comment that indicates that's the way it should work, but I don't touch things based solely on scripting comments (there's hundreds of clearly obsolete ones all over the game), what the comments say also has to be better/make more sense/be clearly more appropriate. In this case, well, the cooks are clearly distracted, you're all theoretically trying to be sneaky, and it's plausible that they wouldn't address Erlina unless you actually try to get their attention. I think it works well enough as it is, nothing clearly *bugged* about it and it's very plausible they changed it to this without bothering to rewrite the scripting comment (happens all the time - in this case, possibly because Erlina follows the player, not the controlled character, and if you enter with another party member while the rest of the party is told to stay in place, you'll hit the trigger and Erlina and the cook would have the conversation from a long distance. This can happen by clicking too, but at least it's not *unavoidable*, which it would be if I changed it to work off hitting a trigger. As for what the scripting comments suggest, play it based on -Erlina herself- hitting a trigger, rather than a party member, that can be problematic if the bulk of the party isn't nearby and triggering stuff based on non-party followers hitting a trigger isn't really used anywhere else in the game, probably a good reason for that) so I'm going to leave it as is. As for the "immersive buckets" exchange, that's actually pretty funny, lol. Kinda fourth wall breaking, actually, but funny. No, it never plays in game. As the scripting comment say - "no more buckets = no more immersion". Clearly there were buckets in the area at one point, they were removed, so the line had to be cut.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Feeling sick today, took off work, will try to get some stuff done today.

 

To finish off on the Redcliffe rewards:

 

Isolde's Staff: I took another look at the issue of staves not scaling. Turns out they CAN scale - but, as far as I can tell, only when equipped by party members when adding them to the party. This is the only reason I can figure for Wynne's Enchanter staff being steel when I pick her up (and I'm pretty sure it scaled again to tier 5, after I hadn't used her for a while then picked her up again causing her to autolevel). Isolde's staff in vanilla is the exact same staff - an Enchanter's Staff - but you only get it as Iron because staves won't scale through the reward system. Looking at all the staves in game, there's only two that are actually set to scale - Enchanter's Staff and Magic Staff. That's it. Not worth the dangerous and invasive fix it would take to make just those two scale, but I think it *is* worth making the fix I did, upgrading the specific staff Isolde gives you to Silverite so that Isolde's statements that it possesses "great power", that it is "by far the most valuable thing" she owns, and that "the one good thing that came out of my grandfather's life was this staff", aren't completely ludicrous given that Wynne's version of the staff is *at least* tier 3 steel even if you do the Circle first. Anyone want to argue that her staff being tier 1 is appropriate and doesn't completely contradict her dialogue, have at it, cause I expect that argument to be amusing.

 

Pyromancer's Brand: I'm going to retract this one. It's also tier 1, but it is not set to scale. The only reason I did it is because it seemed so bizarre in a store surrounded by a ton of dragonbone items, but... it is plausible that Owen doesn't know how to make mage staves and is just reselling it, and also, there are other staves with this issue and I can't come up with a coherent consistent reason why I would fix *this* one and not all the others. So. Retracted.

 

Owen's Remasterwork: Arguments for leaving it as is: he refers to it as a "trinket" in dialogue which doesn't imply being powerful, and the fact that it's the reward for *failing* to save his daughter, which unlike the shielded dwarven armor doesn't suggest any real gratitude on his part. Arguments for scaling: the name and description of the bloody thing do imply very high quality, combined with the fact that it's actually actively *worse* than the common non-unique Studded Helm that can drop even in Origin stories as random loot - literally the worst helm in the game aside from a random drop tier 1/2 Leather Helm that you probably couldn't even get to drop at that low a level by Ostagar. All together, does this lead to breaking WSoD and fourth wall breaking? Not as bad as the others, but yeah, I think so. On further consideration, however, I don't think allowing it to scale as high as dragonbone is necessary to deal with that issue. I'll lower the max material type to tier 4 veridium. I think that is sufficient to satisfy the breaking-WSoD concern - at least it would no longer be a "masterwork" *worst helm in the game* at tier 4.

 

Helm of the Red: This one utterly offends my game-designer sensibilities from a challenge/reward perspective, as saving everyone in Attack at Nightfall, particularly at higher difficulties, is IMO easily the most difficult challenge in the entire game, easily harder than killing the archdemon. I remember it taking me at least half a damn night on nightmare. To go through all that and get only a very crappy steel helm as a reward from a *wealthy noble* who claims it as a family heirloom, and not an evil or greedy noble either, for that insane kind of challenge was a massive fourth-wall "You've got to be freakin' kidding me" WSoD breaker to me. Again, like the Shielded Dwarven Armor, I don't think scaling it even to dragonbone makes it a particularly worthwhile helm to actually use compared to the items that would be available at the level sufficient to scale it that high, but at least it wouldn't be quite as gratuitously insulting to the player in compensating them for so much of their time investment with such a spectacularly lame reward for the effort required. Remember that someone doing Redcliffe first will still get a relatively low level helm, and it will still suck, but at least it will be on par with the other gear the player has at that point. Saving everyone at a high level and getting a reward 3 or 4 tiers lower than the worst equipment the party has equipped - THAT is what I consider wildly implausible and fourth wall breaking, hence, scaling.

 

 

I've laid all that out so that if someone wants to keep arguing for changes/retractions, you at least have some detail as to what's motivating the changes in the first place.

 

Now on to other stuff.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Actually, first, to make the above modifications and to rewrite the readme for the above changes. Here's how these entries will read now (the Eamon's Shield and Pyromancer Brand entries have been removed altogether):

 

IF008: "Helm of the Red": This reward from Bann Teagan for saving everyone during "Attack at Nightfall", arguably the single hardest challenge in the game, was always Tier 3 Steel, potentially rendering it 3 to 4 tiers lower than the worst equipment the player would likely have equipped at the point it is received. I've judged this potential extreme imbalance between challenge/reward, not to mention its history as a noble family heirloom, to be deeply immersion breaking. Its material will now scale to the player's level at the time it is received. See RE033 for more information.

 

IF009: "Shielded Dwarven Armor": This reward from Owen for undertaking "Lost in the Castle" successfully was always tier 3 steel, despite Oghren praising it as a "fine piece" that he would be "honored to wear into battle" despite Oghren already being equipped with armor offering at least twice as much protection as this "fine piece" when you first meet him, and despite Owen crafting some of the highest quality material items in the game. I've judged this reward to contradict Oghren's dialogue and as such an immersion breaker. Its material will now scale to the player's level at the time it is received. See RE033 for more information.

 

IF010: "Owen's Remasterwork": This reward from Owen for undertaking "Lost in the Castle" unsuccessfully was always tier 2 gray iron, making this "masterwork" worse than the common loot Studded Helm that can drop during Origin stories, despite his crafting some of the highest quality material items in the game. I've judged this reward to be contradicted by its own name and description and thus somewhat immersion breaking. Its material will now scale to the player's level (up to tier 4 veridium) at the time it is received. See RE033 for more information.

 

IF011: "Enchanter's Staff": This reward from Isolde (or Arl Eamon, if she promised a reward but did not survive) for reviving Arl Eamon in "The Arl of Redcliffe" was always tier 1 iron. Wynne has the exact same staff when you acquire her, except hers is at least tier 3 steel or better. This is deemed to directly contradict Isolde's statements that her staff possesses "great power", that it is "by far the most valuable thing" she owns, and that "the one good thing that came out of my grandfather's life was this staff". Its material will now be tier 6 silverite (due to a bug that would be very problematic to fix directly, staves can unfortunately not be scaled to the player's level). See RE033 for more information.

 

 

And the referenced RE033 reads:

 

 

RE033: "The Arl of Redcliffe" / "Attack At Nightfall" / "Lost In The Castle": Four quest rewards in this area were always of extremely poor quality material (tier 3 steel or below), despite being rewards for very challenging quests from high nobility or a master blacksmith with the best quality material store inventory in the game. In all of these cases this low quality is also directly contradicted by in game dialogue or the item's name, description, or lore history, which I have judged as being deeply immersion breaking. When possible, these rewards will now scale to the player's level, or are upgraded to a specific higher tier if not. See item fixes IF008, IF009, IF010, and IF011 for more information.

 

 

 

EDIT: As an additional side note, the comment for the Helm of the Red in the toolset says "Available from ran260cr_bannorn_knight", indicating it was originally supposed to be a drop from an unnamed knight in a random encounter. I think it's fair to assume it was repurposed without being rebalanced for its new purpose.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Some random notes:

 

• Fixes Legion of the Dead Heraldry to give +3 stats like all other heraldries.
• Fixes Magebane/Soldierbane to correctly remove mana/stamina instead of adding it.
• Fixes Repeater Gloves (from Return to Ostagar DLC) to properly gives -0.3s to your aim time, instead of -3.0s.
• Fixes the bug where swift salve will add 0.9s to your aim time instead of subtracting 0.1s."

I already said I'm keeping hands off on these because they are combat mechanic fixes, but in addition to that, the first and third are DLC, so even if I decide to do other item fixes in general, those two are definitely out of scope of this mod.

 

As for the others - since you guys asked, I took a good look at the Magebane/Soldierbane ones, and it reinforces my belief that I need to stay away from these. The way Dragon Age Rules Fixpack did it and the way I would do it would almost certainly conflict - if both were installed, they would probably negate each other (if mine reversed it from an add to a subtract, DARF's method would probably reverse it again). The item fixes I *have* done shouldn't cause any conflicts, but these that were handled by other combat mechanic fixpacks, I do need to stay away from for compatibility purposes. You guys asked and I took another look, but... Sorry. I don't think you'd want me to do these if it means you can't install the rest of fixpacks like that.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, I also took a look at a combat mechanic bug that had been mentioned to me previously, and which is listed in the wiki, that Combat Magic's bonus to attack uses the magic attribute as the modifier, instead of spellpower as stated in the tooltip. I can't find any support for that. Here's the relevant bit of script from spell_modal.nss:

 

case ABILITY_SPELL_COMBAT_MAGIC:
{
eEffects[0] = EffectModifyProperty(PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_ATTACK, COMBAT_MAGIC_ATTACK_BONUS + MaxF(GetCreatureSpellPower(stEvent.oCaster)/5.0,0.0) );

 

That certainly looks like it's already using spellpower to me. Someone will have to tell me what the basis was for thinking it doesn't work the way it's supposed to for me to dig any further.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Just remembered another thing. After completing 'Lost to the Memories', you can return to Orzammar and speak to Orta again. She will say that the expedition to Ortan Thaig was successful, thank you again and give you 10 gold.

However, in the toolset, there is a developer comment (in the dlg file I think?) that she should give you gold and 'something nice' (as in, part of the spoils from the expedition -- I'm a bit hazy on the exact wording). You could perhaps add an item to the rewards.gda file to reflect that?

Here's the actual comment:

rewards.

Rewards should be one weapon or powerful artifact, and two hundred sovereigns.

NEW: LUKE: the amount above is game-breaking
Pay the player 20 gold. Toss in an item if there's one available, but don't go nuts over it.

The amount was further reduced to 10 gold and no item - and in fact, I don't have an item available (this might've been a good place if I had more items to restore than prizeless quests, but that turned out not to be the case).

I think it's fine as is - and a good example for you guys of how scripting comments are frequently obsoleted - even Luke's comment there is obsolete. I will definitely consider scripting comments if what they say makes sense and gives a direction in which to fix a bug (for example, a place where an approval boost or hit for a follower looks obvious but is missing), but if I went around force-implementng every scripting comment in the game, it'd be an entirely different (and very broken) game by the time I was done. As far as those comments go, I hold to, if it ain't actually broke, don't fix it. It could theoretically be a Restoration... but only if there was anything left to restore, and there isn't. Thanks for the report anyway.

Not sure whether or not this is a bug or if it has a lore reason, but when you find Deygan in the forest his eyes have a sort of glowing yellow color which I associate with having contracted the werewolf curse, yet he states he has in fact not been bitten.

I'm not sure if there's a lore reason either. The color does not seem to be available in the character generator when creating an elf, but that doesn't mean anything for certain. Maybe he's some sort of albino, or maybe he was bit and didn't realize it but it's made moot by your actions later? I know, sucky answers, but to fix it would take altering his morph, I believe, so outside of the scope of this mod anyway. Thanks for the report regardless.

sialivi: I'm currently playing through the Korcari Wilds and noticed the player has a combat bark saying "I'm sensing more darkspawn", which doesn't make sense pre-joining. I think I'm using the female sultry voice.

firepanda: There's actually an even more explicit line in the 'experienced' voice set: 'Warden senses tingling'. This can play at the start of *any* battle (in fact I think it can even play in the origin).

I'm sure it can play in the Origin - nothing would prevent it from doing so. The only way I could semi-safely address this would be to stop *all* player barks when sighting Darkspawn until after the joining (or actually, probably more appropriate to stop them until after the first dream-of-the-dragon sequence in the first camp after Lothering). This would affect all soundsets, even ones (and I believe this would be about half of them) where there aren't any problematic "warden senses" lines. Is that cure worse than the disease? It's not like these barks *have* to play or anything, I think there's only a 30% chance of them triggering in any given encounter anyway. Open to votes and opinions on that as a solution. (Note: follower barks would be unaffected if they sighted the darkspawn first.)

Edited July 14, 2017 by Qwinn

[Thandal]

My vote: Leave the "darkspawn" barks alone. Cure is definitely not worth the cost.