Qwinn´s Ultimate DAO Fixpack v3 (no longer beta!)

[Qwinn]

"I'm opposed to xp being tied to morality."

 

To a large extent I agree with you. Which is why I just fixed it. I think you're failing to recognize that that's what was going on here because it's so unusual to see *immorality* being rewarded. In this quest, you only got xp if you were immoral.

 

The reason my final design is giving xp *or* coin *or* a bit of each is to keep the overall reward consistent. The player can effectively choose to get silver *or* xp, and the exchange rate here is consistent with other rewards this game hands out where the player is given the same effective choice.

 

As for the argument regarding being rewarded for investing in persuasion, I would generally consider that a factor, but it's not the case here. There is no persuasion check in getting him to give you money, it's automatic just by asking for it. And there is no added effort, time or skill necessary on the player's part to get the additional reward. Therefore, it is simply greed that is being rewarded, not just with coin but with xp as well.

 

Since there is no path that requires extra time, effort or skill, the overall reward should remain fairly equivalent across all paths. The tradeoff is therefore between xp vs. silver. The player can choose one or the other (human nobles can pick half and half), but the total reward is considered equivalent. Neither morality nor immorality is being rewarded more than the other, the reward just comes in a different form.

 

Now if you, personally, value xp more than silver, or at least more than the exchange rate here (which is 10xp per 1 silver), then that should make your choice easy. But there are many who would value the silver over the xp. It is impossible to satisfy everyone on a value judgment like that, which is why it's a good thing that often, as here, the player is given the choice between them.

 

"Slightly different dialog. Do you want me to upload a 15sec fraps video?"

 

Yes please. I only see one dialogue when you click the flower so I'm not sure how it could turn out different.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

12. (v3.0) "The Hungry Prisoner": The only way you got the xp reward for this quest is if you A) gave him food without getting the key, or B) killed the prisoner. Getting the quest-end xp for killing him was itself a bug, because killing him doesn't technically end the quest until you use the key (or, with my previous fix, leaving Ostagar with the key). You will now get the quest completion xp when you A) give him food without getting the key, B) open the chest with the key, or C) leave Ostagar with the key.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Hoping someone can give me a hand here, as this is something I doubt I'll have to deal with more than once, and investing the amount of time it would take to learn the entire thing for the sake of a single fix isn't appealing at the moment.

 

When you finish the blood and treaty quests in the Wilds and return to Ostagar, it is nighttime, which is a new area distinct from the daytime area. If you go *directly* to the bridge leading out toward the Tower of Ishal, the moment you step on the bridge, very loud battle music starts (EDIT: Not quite true, sometimes I can get halfway across the bridge before it starts, other times immediately at the beginning, makes it very hard to figure out what's going on), even though the battle hasn't started yet. This is unconditional, and I believe if you do this, when the real battle starts, there will no longer be any music as you cross. I am trying to set a condition on that music to not start until the actual attack does. I am still clueless as to how this works however. It doesn't appear to use a trigger to start it. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a "sound" in the toolset, or as "music volume", or "reverb volume", or "audiovolume". Anyone know how to get music to only start up depending on a plot flag? I'm not having luck searching the web. Any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Qwinn

[aeroldoth]

Just to clarify, my comment was about games in general not just DAO, which is why I mentioned several other games.

 

Here's my vid

 

 

EDIT

Don't know if this helps about the bridge music, but I think this is what I got. If you go straight across at night (which I do so Daveth can loot), you get an auto save and music. When you cross again after joining, no save or music. However, if you've crossed once, gotten music, and saved/loaded after, you'll get music on second crossing after joining (but no auto save). I THINK that's what I got. Also, if you get music while crossing and instantly load a save, the music will play through the loading screen and new load, which I'm sure shouldn't happen. I got to hear the tail end of the battle music (which isn't long) in Lothering.

Edited March 6, 2017 by aeroldoth

[Qwinn]

Understood. I don't disagree with your sentiments in general, really. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't taking away the xp from the 50 silver option because "bad, greed, bad!" I only did so because I consider both xp and silver/cash to be interchangeable in terms of reward, and if you get a lot of one, you should get less of the other (barring some mitigating circumstance like requiring greater skill/time investment, none of which applied to that fix). The *effect* turns out looking like it's rewarding morality, but only if you consider xp either independent of or more valuable than cash as a reward.

 

As to the video, that clarifies things, I thought you were talking about Daveth's dialogue at the flower being different, and I couldn't see any way that could happen. But I see now you meant with the kennel master, and that one's easy to explain. The first video is the dialogue with a human noble (different because he already has a dog). Your video is the dialogue for everyone else.

[Qwinn]

"Don't know if this helps about the bridge music, but I think this is what I got. If you go straight across at night (which I do so Daveth can loot), you get an auto save and music. When you cross again after joining, no save or music. However, if you've crossed once, gotten music, and saved/loaded after, you'll get music on second crossing after joining (but no auto save). I THINK that's what I got. Also, if you get music while crossing and instantly load a save, the music will play through the loading screen and new load, which I'm sure shouldn't happen. I got to hear the tail end of the battle music (which isn't long) in Lothering."

 

Yeah, the auto-save I *think* I can fix to not happen until the battle starts without too many problems (though I haven't done it yet). And as far as music, yeah, I got the same thing, you can load a saved game and the music from wherever you were prior to the load will continue, I guess until it comes to some stopping point and then the music of the new area will start. Same seems to happen without loading - if you have the "camp" music playing and you go onto the bridge, it won't actually start the new bridge music until whatever music was playing in camp finishes it's current iteration. Particularly annoying because it makes it extremely difficult to figure out where you actually have to stand in order to trigger the new music, which would greatly help in figuring out what object on the area map is actually responsible for it.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Qwinn

[aeroldoth]

Helpful refugee outside Lothering tavern asks if I'm the one who took care of the bandits, when all I did was extort 20s by intimidation check. Also, if you go straight to the tavern, deal with the soldiers, go outisde and head towards the lothering exit, the refugee mob appears. I thought they were only supposed to appear if you spoke to the helpful refugee and told him yes.

[Qwinn]

_{Thanks for the report!}

_{The first thing you mentioned, I already fixed back on page 3:}

_{"E15. (v3.0) Fixed bug that would cause the Helpful Refugee outside of the tavern to always ask you if you're the one who cleared out the bandits, even if the bandits were still there."}

_{The next thing, though - I had never heard that the refugee attackers were conditional. I thought they were always there, but looking at the area file, yeah, they're not active by default, so some event is causing them to spawn. Pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with the helpful refugee though. I'm going to look around and see what causes them to spawn.}

 

_{EDIT: Found it. Yeah, it's fighting the guys in the tavern that spawns them. Helpful refugee not involved.}

Edited March 6, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

15. (v3.0) "The Missionary": If you had this quest open, but left Ostagar before completing it, the intended failed journal entry meant to close the quest would not be activated, leaving the quest stuck open in your journal.

 

16. (v3.0) "Chasind Trail Signs": If you found all of the trail markers, activating this quest, but then left Ostagar before finding the cache, the intended failed journal entry meant to close the quest would not be activated, leaving the quest stuck open in your journal.

 

17. (v3.0) "Last Will and Testament": If you found the will, but then left Ostagar before finding the lockbox, the intended failed journal entry meant to close the quest would not be activated, leaving the quest stuck open in your journal.

[aeroldoth]

"it's fighting the guys in the tavern that spawns them. Helpful refugee not involved."

 

My mistake then. I guess I assumed he was the trigger because when you say it was you, he makes a show of waving everyone to come closer and points you out as the ones who did it.

 

You asked before about stat dialogues. The merchant in the lothering tavern has a (poison) dialogue (though miriam and her poultice quest and the girl with her trap quest don't indicate (herbalism) or (traps)).

 

As a minor note, I believe the DLC feastday pranks causes the dwarf merchant in lothering to have a quest symbol while IN lothering, which he retains when he joins your camp later. He keeps it until you buy a prank, which is annoying and not clear to newbies (watched an LP of someone who couldn't figure out why he had the symbol or how to get rid of it, and didn't want to taint his blind play by looking it up). Don't know if disabling that quest notice is a "bug" or not, but it is annoying. My first play I tried talking to him forever in lothering, wondering why I couldn't get his quest.

 

Another minor point. The poison merchant says you can find supplies around town to make his poison, and spiders to the north drop toxins for you to use. However, no other spider in the game drops toxins. Don't know if every other spider in the game should (and if you'd want to do all that work that people probably don't care about), or if we should just accept the handwaving that these spiders drop toxins just for his quest. Crates by the bandits at the entrance have trap springs so you can later make traps for the other girl, so.... just pointing it out. Don't know how thorough you want to be and real bugs are more important than this.

 

Also as a funny, I still had the prisoner food/water from Ostagar, and there's a line to sten offering him food and water. I guess he didn't want rotting food and an empty mug.

Edited March 6, 2017 by aeroldoth