Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 6. (v3.0) "Oghren's Old Flame": When telling Oghren what Felsi said, you could be blocked from telling him everything simply by choosing the various responses in a particular order. 7. (v3.0) "Oghren's Old Flame": There is no approval boost at all for actually completing Oghren's personal quest successfully, or any negative approval for making him look like a cowardly idiot in front of Felsi either. Combined with the fact that there are very few other means of getting decent approval boosts with him, it is actually exceedingly difficult to get him enough approval to be Friendly (at least without the Feastday gifts or the infinite approval exploit I fixed in version 1.0). Hard to believe this was intended. Oghren's approval can now rise or fall considerably depending on the options you pick during his conversation with Felsi. 8. (v3.0) Oghren could initiate an almost completely identical conversation with you about Branka up to four times in a row in camp based on having completed main plot quests, and repeated potential approval boosts from them but only IF you were already at Friendly when they each occurred. Once you have had this friendly conversation with him, you won't get it again. 9. (v3.0) Conversely, if you asked Oghren about Branka before you got him to Friendly, you'd never get that option again, so if you ever wanted to hear what he really thinks about her fate, you have to metagamingly know to avoid asking until he's Friendly. You will now get a chance to ask him at Friendly so asking him prior to that doesn't block that content permanently. 10. (v3.0) "Oghren's Old Flame": Knowing to say to Felsi "Admit it, Oghren is much more fun than the men around here" is now conditional on Felsi having told the player that the men around here are no fun. Edited March 17, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroldoth Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) I agree. Sten and Oghren are definitely "fixer-uppers". EDIT don't Arcane Horrors use mana and not stamina? One in the mage tower keeps ignoring my glyph of neutralization, which is supposed to drain them, haven't met other AH yet. Edited March 17, 2017 by aeroldoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I just did an analysis of Oghren's possible approval in the unmodded game, and it's *really* threadbare. Even with heavy metagaming it's absurdly difficult to get him to sufficient approval for Friendly. Some of the few ways to get a decent approval boost from him are not intuitive at all - for example, you need to go see Felsi without him in your party, then tell him you did so in camp (which starts with a low decrease in approval), but then tell him you'll take him to her soon (redundantly to the conversation where you get the quest). That's one of the best approval boosts possible with him. And it effectively involves trolling poor Oghren about the love of his life. Another boost is, when he's giving you the quest, telling him "By the maker, we don't have time for this!" and then "Fine, what is it?" which nets out to an increase... this was the infinite approval exploit I fixed in version 1.0, because it could be done in a loop infinitely. Take out these trolls that no one but a metagamer would ever be aware of and it's virtually *impossible* to get Oghren to Friendly without exploits or Feastday gifts, at least if you sided with Caridin anyway. Even siding with Branka doesn't make it much better, since you can recover a bit of that by offering Caridin's boon to Oghren, which I did. In my own game, after having completed every major plot area except for the Urn and Denerim, and having metagamed to get him approval everywhere I could (except for killing Caridin), and having given him 4 drinks, my approval with him was at a whopping... 42. With virtually nowhere else left to get him further approval except for a few more drinks which wouldn't net much more approval increase after the first 4. In my first test of adding approval boosts to the Felsi conversation, I walked away with a 31 point boost... and it still wasn't enough to get him to Friendly approval. I might have to go as high as 43 potential points in the Felsi conversation to make him anywhere close to Friendly-possible. Actually, I may keep it at 31 max from that conversation, and add a 10 point boost when you discover Branka's journal in Ortan Thaig. It seems silly to me that there's no approval boost anywhere in the entire run up to finding Branka... not in finding Caridin's Cross or Ortan Thaig or finding Branka's journal. He's been desperate to find someone to help him get to her for 2 years, and when someone finally does, when you finally take him to the first real clue of her whereabouts that anyone has had in 2 years - he doesn't think one whit better of them at all for it. Bah, I say. Edited March 17, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Wow. More analysis. It is only possible to lose approval with Oghren on the way to get Branka. When you first find Caridin's Cross: Tell him "Great. Lead on and shut up." - approval decrease. Tell him "Great, let's go" and he responds "I've been waiting for someone to say that for 2 sodding years" - no approval increase. When you first find Ortan Thaig: "What if Branka and everyone died?" - approval decrease. When you say "Let's get going", and he says "Couldn't have said it better myself" - no approval increase. As previously noted - no approval increase for finding Branka's journal. No approval gain for telling Branka "How do you know I'm not just helping Oghren?" Had I not given Oghren drinks, at the point where you find Branka, your maximum approval with him is 0 and your minimum is somewhere around -6. EDIT: Wait, I'm wrong! You can get 3 points when Oghren first asks to join by saying "Cut to the chase. You can come if your info is good." Awesome! No fixes needed then. /sarc To hell with that. I refuse to believe that was intended. I will add a few approval boosts along the way to Branka so that I don't have to go 40+ points in Felsi's conversation to make Friendly even possible without extreme metagaming. Edited March 17, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thandal Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 <snip>... To hell with that. I refuse to believe that was intended. I will add a few approval boosts along the way to Branka so that I don't have to go 40+ points in Felsi's conversation to make Friendly even possible without extreme metagaming. Dealing with Oghren is about the only reason I use the FeastDay Crap Gifts. Thank you so much for tackling this obvious mistake. (Any chance of addressing the broken bits in Awakening around this same issue? Or does fixing things in Origins resolve the issue there as well?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Not sure how this will translate in Awakening. Does he start with whatever his approval was in Origins, or does it reset to 0? If it resets then nothing I'm doing will have an effect in Awakenings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theskymoves Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Not sure how this will translate in Awakening. Does he start with whatever his approval was in Origins, or does it reset to 0? If it resets then nothing I'm doing will have an effect in Awakenings. It resets to 0. (I always import all my unused gifts to DAA and give 'em to Oghren, b/c his approval is just as hard to raise in the expansion). Edited March 17, 2017 by theskymoves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Wow, that sucks. I was thinking MAYBE since he's in the expansion they intended to stretch it out, reasonably get to 50 in origins and the rest in awakening (which would be poor design IMO, you still lose all the friendly content in origins), but resetting it to 0 nixes that possibility. Thandal, if you were serious about putting me in touch with Bioware for possible job opportunity (and I really hope you were), might want to start that ball rolling... I suspect the bureaucracy would take a while to get me source code for Awakening/DA2/Inquisition, if we wait till I'm done here it's gonna be a while before I can do anything else. Hopefully just the fact that I've found several hundred bugs so far, let alone fixing them, is enough of a resume enhancer, heh. Edited March 17, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostAngel Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 So is this the best fix pack as of now? If so Can I get a link to this most recent version?? As if I remember the old one I know of had issues with the most up to date version of DA:O which was 1.04 and the 2.0 of the Qwinn's fix pack was made for 1.03.... then again I've been out the loop on DA games for YEARS now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The 6 year old version 2.0 of my fixpack is the last released version. 3.0 is still in production, I'd guess I'm about 2/3 done with it. Another 10 weeks or so before release, Id guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts