Qwinn Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) Zevran: 13. (v3.0) Zevran will no longer refer to female Wardens as a man during his romance triangle dialogue about Leliana. Credit to the ejoslin and the ZDF readme for making me aware of this one. 14. (v3.0) If Zevran is killed by the player during his crisis dialogue (requires -100 approval), his codex entry was not updated. Thanks to TotalBalance of the Nexus forums for making me aware of this one. 15. (v3.0) If Zevran is killed by the player during his crisis dialogue (requires -100 approval), all equipment he was equipped with by the player should now be recoverable from his body (previously, it was somewhat random what equipment you could recover). 16. (v3.0) The encounter with Taliesen in Denerim should now occur even if Zevran was never or is no longer with the party, although his motives for being there may have changed depending on circumstances. This restores a couple of previously inaccessible lines of dialogue when speaking to Taliesen under these circumstances. Edited May 27, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) Working Oghren's crisis converation now. These are done: 16. (v3.0) Crisis dialogue (requires -100 approval): If you initiated the dialogue by lowering his approval sufficiently while in camp, then clicked on Oghren, the dialogue was properly staged, but if it was initiated automatically by returning to camp, the dialogue was unstaged (extreme close up of helmet). Staging has been added to the latter circumstance in order to match the former. 17. (v3.0) Crisis dialogue (requires -100 approval): Oghren will no longer blink out of existence if told to leave during his first crisis conversation. Thanks to TotalBalance on the Nexus forums for making me aware of this one. 18. (v3.0) Crisis dialogue (requires -100 approval): Reworked the approval that Oghren ends up at if he is persuaded to stay, in order to match up with the intent in the scripting comments. This also fixes a bug where, if you intimidate him to stay, he'd still be in crisis coming out of the conversation (thanks to TotalBalance of the Nexus forums for making me aware of the latter issue). After working these, I have to ask - has anyone EVER managed to get a follower to -100 approval without using feastday pranks? I have a hard time even imagining how you could do that. I mean, I find it hard just getting to hostile (-26) in normal gameplay. -100 seems kinda ridiculous. I am *pondering* changing that as effectively a restoration to make it *possible* to see the crisis dialogue content without having to use DLC pranks. Something like -60 seems entirely more reasonable/accessible without going too far in the other direction. Again, this would fall under the 'restoration" mantle, as that content is *effectively* inaccessible, it seems to me, though I am not one prone to deliberately playing an asshole, so maybe I'm wrong about how inaccessible it is. If I did do this, It's not like anyone couldn't *easily* avoid the crisis dialogues with a couple of the regular gifts in game. What do you all think? Edited May 27, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartenX123 Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 I never even got close to -100, but of course I also did not try in a serious play-through.Can't image what it would take to get a follower to this approval level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdenYeshua Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Leliana/Approval Just a rough look at the approval guide it's possible to at least get -150 (if that were a number allowed by the game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) AdenYeshua: I don't think so at all. If you're adding up every single negative number in that guide to get to -150, it doesn't work that way - a lot of those negatives are mutually exclusive, especially the big ones. For example, in the triangle breakup conversations, you can get -10 by saying "I don't feel the same way, I'm sorry" OR "It's been fun, but I'm going with Zevran/Morrigan", however, they both end the conversation and romance and you can't choose both options or repeat the conversation. And both of those are going to be exclusive with the "About us..." -14 breakup, and also the -15 "The girl that tags along and is sometimes useful?" breakup, since you can't break up with her twice (at least, not in a game where bugs that incorrectly allow you to restart the romance have been fixed.) Those that I just listed make up the BULK of negative approval you can get for her, and you can really only get one of them. If you added them all up, you got -69 from just those, but you really can't get more than -15 of it. And ALL of those are only available if you are in a romance with her to begin with, which would have required you to get her up to +26 approval to start with, so if you're trying for low approval, you won't help matters by romancing her and then breaking up, it'll still be positive approval overall. If you're just adding up every negative number on that guide, you'd think you can get -35 in the Missing Child conversation, but again due to mutually exclusive hits, the most I think you can lose in that conversation is only -16. I'm betting that if you avoid every possible way to increase her approval, and take every possible negative hit, you couldn't get below -70. Actually, probably more like -40. Just as a gut feeling from all of the dialogues I've looked at so far, and seeing how many approval hits are present, I think the only follower that could possibly get to -100 (and I'm not even sure) might be Morrigan. Edited May 28, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdenYeshua Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I don't think it's THAT difficult, again it was just a rough overview. I'll trust your better judgement but, you can get -30 just in "A Village Under Siege" doing nothing else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) That definitely is where you can get the most approval loss - but that and other bits in Redcliffe are almost *all* the hits you can get. I don't want to make this decision rashly though. Let's crunch the numbers and see which of us is right. Of the first 85% of that guide - from the beginning allll the way down to "Forest Stream", the only negatives you can get without having to get to at least Warm (+26) status first are "This vision of yours" (-3) and the conversation following getting the ashes without tainting them (-1). The negative hits opened up by getting to Warm don't come even close to subtracting enough to get you back below 0, and it's even worse getting to Care or Adore. So: Standard dialogue options available at Neutral: -4Forest Stream: -6Dealings with Brother Gentivi (including killing him): -6Village Under Siege: -30Arl of Redcliffe (kill Jowan and Connor): -10A Missing Child: -6 (the -10 kiss doesn't work if you're at neutral or below) Aaaaand... that's it. Total: -62. And that's with extreme metagaming and assuming you *don't* get a single positive point by doing silly things like actually accepting Kaitlyn's quest or having her tell you any stories. EDIT: I checked where I thought I'd seen other negative hits, and there's also a good -10 or so in the dialogue between Zathrian and the Lady of the Forest, and another -10 if you side with Branka. -3 for killing Wynne when you meet her. So, let's call it -85. More than I thought, actually - but still leaves crisis dialogues inaccessible. Edited May 28, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Similar analsys of Sten (I figured he's the surliest of the bunch). Like Leliana, there are no approval hits opened up by getting to Warm (+26) that make it worth it. Note that the guide doesn't mention that the third step of most of the "About" conversations requires Warm, so those are out. The guide doesn't mention it, but you do have some negatives in the About Children dialogue, and I checked the dialogue and am counting them here. Standard dialogue options available at Neutral: -12"The Blight - how will you end it": -3His "Females aren't warriors" talk - only available to female wardens if you didn't trigger a similar conversation in a banter with Morrigan, Leliana or Wynne beforehand: -3About Mages: -17About Human Wisdom: -13About the Tal-Vashoth: -6About Children: -6Freeing Kitty in Honnleath: -3Haven confrontation: -5Arl of Redcliffe: -20 (or -10, not sure if exclusive - let's say -20)Broken Circle: -3 Total: -88 for male Wardens, -91 for females. And he's almost as grouchy as Morrigan. Note also that it's VERY easy to miss the "Females aren't warriors", and any of those "About" conversations if you don't have Sten in your party the very first time you visit certain locations. (For example, if he's not in the party the first time you visit the Denerim Market, you'll never get the About Children conversation. ). And again, of course, getting that much requires *extreme* metagaming, and still doesn't get you to the crisis dialogue. Edited May 28, 2017 by Qwinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwinn Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Anyways, all that said, I'm not intending to make any changes to that aspect of approval in 3.0. Too big and problematic a change to risk implementing it alongside 800 other fixes. Something big like that's something you only try to add to a known stable codebase, and I can't consider v3.0 that until its been released for a while. Back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shades01 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Another thing pops to mind, what of those bugs when importing saves from DA:O to DA2. I read somewhere about some flags not being marked properly or something (forgive my ignorance)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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