Visible breath in cold weather?

[Zquinty]

Why doesn't anyone make a mod where you can see people's breath in cold weather - for example, in Bruma? Sure, It's probably more work than it's worth, but wouldn't it be much more realistic? Surely, one of you experienced modders would like to try it? (Although, it might take quite some time to get the animals/creatures to have visible breath... same with NPC's) While I'm at it, I'll also suggest that the fish have bubbles coming from their gills? This would be interesting to see... (Personally, I don't have enough experience with modding to do anything this complex. I'm assuming, of course, that this is going to be much more difficult than it sounds.)

 

I'd love to see someone come out with this.

Are any of you up to it?

[Sypron]

Why doesn't anyone make a mod where you can see people's breath in cold weather - for example, in Bruma? Sure, It's probably more work than it's worth...

You've answered the question right there. Its just not worth the effort.

 

While I'm at it, I'll also suggest that the fish have bubbles coming from their gills? This would be interesting to see...

 

This is easier, slightly, because fish are all the same and are always underwater. But I think you'll find fish don't exhale gas, so realistically there would be no bubles.

[kungfubellydancer]

I think I like the breath idea, even though its pretty challenging. In the snow levels of Dead or Alive they have visible breaths. I think if someone was willing to assign this feature for every snow cell, then why not create the mod?

[Sypron]

The hard bit would be the effect itself, someone would have to somehow attach it to the mouth area, which would be hard, then you have to add globals to make it appear in all cells in a certain range, and interiors, and cities. Its not as simple as typing "SetColdBreath to 1".

[twrdrockfan]

Keep in mind, I am very new when it comes to oblivion scripting but here is my idea for this:

 

1. create a temperature variable

2. for exterior work, assign a daily/weekly/whatever average high (between 1pm and 4pm) and average low (between 1am and 4am)

3. add a line that checks the day and if the day is different than the last time this script was run, adjust it to the new day, and add (or subtract) a random amount to the temperature (say by a (GetRandomPercent-50)/5 kinda thing, giving a range of 10 above and 10 below the normal for that day.

4. add in another line regarding altitude, and its effect on temperature.

5. not a clue how to do this, but as was said, you would need to add an emitter(?) just by the player (if just for the player), or every breathing npc (if for everyone) that was only active if the temperature for them was below, say 40F and whatever that is in Celsius.

 

The hardest part, for immersion, would be making it apply to everyone. Running a script on a single actor, like the player, is easy. Making a global script for every breathing person is a lot harder, and would be pretty likely to need OBSE.

 

Other considerations:

-Vampire breathing (Do they breath? If so, are they a colder temperature than humans, resulting in breath not appearing until lower temperatures?)

-Argonians (I know its a game, and it wouldn't be fair to the players who use them, but lets face it. If argonians are essentially lizards, wouldn't the whole cold-blooded thing cause some problems? I know they might not die, as some cold blooded animals can hibernate, but come on. A lizard wearing freezing cold metal armor and looking out over dive rock is probably not going to be all that comfortable.

-Effects other than breathing (Yeah, its -10 degrees and snowing in bravil, but your Nord barbarian is still running around comfortably in only his loin cloth. Maybe its a bad example since Nords resist cold, but you get the idea. Maybe frost damage based on temperature vs clothing.)

 

On the note of temperature variables, it could also be extended to rain vs snow issues. You get an exceptionally cold day, you may be able to watch khajiit in Leyawiin catching snow on their tongues.

 

Being that I am not a spelunker, I do not know about the whole seeing your breath in a cave thing, or whether it gets warmer (closer to the core) or colder (further from sunlight and its heat). You would have to do some research on that, if going for the whole immersion experience.

[Sypron]

"5. not a clue how to do this, but as was said, you would need to add an emitter(?)"

 

 

That's the hard bit. You would have to add either a clothing item, or a spell effect to the player to generate the breath. That requires some pretty skilled modeling. As for the whole "When does it work and when doesn't it work" bit, a range of cells should suffice. That's if the game can track cells in that manor. It tracks weather though, perhaps wherever it snows you get coldbreath.

 

 

As for the argonian issue, you get the 'cold breath' from the air inside you warming up, then when you breath out you see it (don't know how this works exactly, but that's the idea). The same thing WOULD happen for argonians, but the air would only warm inside them if they're bodies were warm, and the bodies won't be worm in the north. So essentially they shouldn't be able to LIVE where it snows.

[Abramul]

Morrowind's Argonians referred to others as 'warmbloods', and were adversely affected by cold.

Just... keep... moving... and... maybe... I... won't.... FREEZE.

 

Whether they required external heat, or simply needed a warmer climate due to lower metabolism, I cannot say. And Oblivion's Argonians are different, anyway.

 

 

As for Nords, I got the impression that their immunity/resistance was to magical cold. Not sure on this one.

[Vagrant0]

At any rate, this sort of thing is just impractical to do.

 

First reason is the application of the effect. This would require an emitter which is weighted to the skeleton (probably not possible), and would have to be attached to an equipment slot whenever you wanted it to be seen. Meaning that you would have issues with any mod, or race that happened to use the tail slot. It would also have to be an inventory item, which may create issues on its own. Nevermind the fact that an emitter can't be controlled to work in pulses, rather than a constant effect, and there is no way to limit the effect to pulses short of constantly equipping the item and then removing it. Nevermind the fact that it probably wouldn't look anything like breath.

 

The second reason is how that effect might be controlled. You would need a script on the PC which would equip the item mentioned above when conditions were met, and remove it when those conditions no longer applied. Fairly simple, but seeing as how there are no easy conditions which could be used to control it, you'd end up having to use some complicated condition tree to accomplish the task. Add to the fact that there is disagreement about how it should work based on race, and you complicate things further.

 

The third reason is the biggest one. Due to the way it is worn, and the scripting needed to control it, it would have to only work with the player character. Sure, you could rig up every NPC in Bruma, but that would likely only create problems. Given that it would only be advisable to use on the player, and how it wouldn't show in first person (not that you'd really want it to given how the camera is positioned) and you're stuck wondering "what is the point?" Not many people play the game in 3rd person mode, and when they do, it's usually being from the back. As far as usage in screenshots go, 15 seconds in photoshop would likely yield better results than you'd get from all the effort required to make something like this work.

[ninja_lord666]

As for the argonian issue, you get the 'cold breath' from the air inside you warming up, then when you breath out you see it (don't know how this works exactly, but that's the idea).

That has to do with deposition. The air inside your body is warm due to your body's heat, thus it's a gas. However, once you breathe it out, it runs smack into the cold air which causes it to immediately become a solid skipping the liquid phase. However, then the decreased pressure outside your body quickly sublimates the solid particles back into a gas.

 

Since the argonians are indeed coldblooded, they shouldn't be able to last in the cold weather for long without dieing. They need warmth to keep their internal organs from freezing.

 

As for the Nords, since there is no weather cold effect, technically they are resistant to only magic cold. However, if weather did have an effect on things, they'd be resistant to weather cold effect, too. The magic cold resistant is just an alternative because there are no weather effects.

Also, what is magic? I always thought that the magic conjured up fire/cold/electricity, not emulate it. That said, elemental immunities/resistances/weaknesses are inherently un-magical.

[Zquinty]

At any rate, this sort of thing is just impractical to do.

 

I agree with you that it is impractical. Although I am as of yet new to these forums, I am not completely incompetent in TES. Mostly incompetent, yes, but not completely. :whistling: I understood the difficulty that would come with this idea when I posted it. Although you did bring up some points that I inevitably didn't think of. However, I believe that although everything you have said so far has been true, nowhere has anyone said that it was IMPOSSIBLE. What I'm getting is that it CAN be done. Even if it is one of the most impractical mods ever suggested. The reason that I even thought to post this idea was that I believed that someone would come up with some reason, completely ridiculous or otherwise, to attempt it anyway. Even if whoever attempted it did not manage to make it work, can you disagree that they would learn something from it and become a better, more knowledgeable modder for it? If I was not so inexperienced with modding, I would attempt it just for this reason. And if someone were to make it work, despite the problems that need to be faced? Well, they would be better respected for it, they would (as I mentioned before) have learned some new things about modding in the process, and as silly as it sounds, I believe that almost anyone wants this: they would have created a mod that people can enjoy (no matter how much) and because of this, they would have bragging rights on the forums. (Of course, not everyone needs or wants bragging rights, but the point still stands.)

 

Considering all these points, wouldn't you think that someone might want to try it despite the problems? The way I see it, there are lots of good reasons for doing it as well as not doing it. Not that I am asking you not to point out any reasons for not doing it - I believe it's important to know the problems you face before choosing to do anything. I am simply pointing out that we should weigh both sides before deciding that it is a bad idea (or a good one, for that matter).

 

That being said, keep sending your views on each side, both criticisms and support. :biggrin:

 

Thanks all. :thanks: