SSE New way of handling facegen data for NPCs in SSE - incompatibility for mods modifying vanilla NPCs

[SydneyB]

In Skyrim, when you changed the face of a vanilla NPC all facegen data was generated only under the folder "Skyrim.esm"

In Skyrim Special Editionm when you cange the face of a vanilla NPC the facegen data is generated under two folders: "Skyrim.esm" and "Mod.esp" (where Mod.esp is the name of the mod changing those faces.

In Skyrim, if two mods changed the face of the same NPC the only problem of incompatibility between those mods was that you would only see in game the changes done by the last mod loading in your load order, as the files in the Skyrim.esm folder of the second mod overwrote the ones of the first mod. No glitches or bugs at all.

But in SSE things are not so easy. I think that this is what is happening:

* Mod A adds a new face for Lydia under the Skyrim.esm folder and the ModA.esp folder

* Mod B adds a new face for Lydia under the Skyrim.esm folder and the ModB.esp folder

* The game loads the face for Lydia under ModA.esp folder + the face for Lydia under the Skyrim.esm folder added by Mod B + the face for Lydia under the ModB.esp folder

* As the facegen data under ModA.esp folder is not the same than the other two, Lydia's face appears either black, or with some lines over her face, or pixelated, or presenting any other graphical glithes!

This only happens for vanilla NPCs. It doesn`t happen with new NPCs added by mods, as all their facegen data is only under the Mod.esp folder.

Any way of fixing this or it is just something we have to learn to live with? :)

[migal130]

 

Any way of fixing this or it is just something we have to learn to live with? :smile:

 

 

Hi, Sydney.

 

I haven't figured it out yet, but I've been working on it for the past few days.

 

- The black head seems to happen no matter what.

 

- The new CK auto-saves facegeom data in a folder named after your plugin when you save the plugin. But, it does not auto-save to the folder named after the original (vanilla or DLC) plugin, where the old CK would put them when pressing <ctrl-F4>.

 

- The new CK will work like the old CK when you press <ctrl-F4>, it will put the facegeom data in folders named after the original vanilla or DLC plugin.

 

- You'll get the black head no matter which way you do it, or if you do both.

 

- It's possible a bug in the new CK is involved regarding saving of the facegeom data. It would make sense for them to change it so facegeom data was saved in a folder named after your own plugin, because then you could get rid of the old grey face bug by simply adjusting your load order. That may have been their intention.

 

- Or, it's also possible it is supposed to work exactly like the old CK and facegeom data is always supposed to be saved to the original vanilla or DLC plugin folder, meaning the auto-saving to a folder named after your own plugin is the bug. I've seen some opinion that this is the case, but I can't verify yet, because no matter where the facegeom data is saved, the heads are too black to see what the face looks like in game.

 

- Head nifs from the old game will work in the new game due to a degree of backwards compatibility and they will not exhibit the black head problem. However, if the head nif was the result of a RaceMenu/NifMerge session and includes custom mesh paths for things like eye geometry or 3rd party hair, those geometries will be missing in game. This may be an issue having to do with quads verses triangles, but I'm not sure yet.

[zilav]

Afaik it is just CK putting facegen files in the wrong folder and you need to move those files yourself where they should be (folder named after the master file of NPC record). I think nothing has changed regarding facegen.

[migal130]

Afaik it is just CK putting facegen files in the wrong folder and you need to move those files yourself where they should be (folder named after the master file of NPC record). I think nothing has changed regarding facegen.

 

Your first sentence may be true, but the second sentence is definitely not. SSE facegen head nifs are a different structure and are made to work with the new shader and lighting system. They also won't allow certain geometries the old game's head nifs would allow.

 

If nothing had changed regarding facegen, then we could use NifMerge to simply convert the old game's head nifs into head nifs for the new game, but we can't. NifMerge can't even open head nifs made with the new CK.

[zilav]

If nothing had changed regarding facegen, then we could use NifMerge to simply convert the old game's head nifs into head nifs for the new game, but we can't. NifMerge can't even open head nifs made with the new CK.

I was talking only about naming and location of files.

By the way I wouldn't use a 3rd party tool as a merit for something, especially if it didn't have any updates for more than a year.

[SydneyB]

For vanilla followers, the new Creation Kit creates new facegen data under the Skyrim.esm and under the Mod.esp folders every time the esp file is saved (and everytime i select the "Upload file to Bethesda.net" option).

 

Do you mean that, moving the facegen files generated under the Mod.esp folder to the Skyrim.esm and only packing then the ones under Skyrim.esm will solve the problem? By noe, packing the facegen data under both the Skyrim.esm and the Mod.esp folders doesn't generate any problems provided that you are only using one mod that modifyes the vanilla NPCs faces. Problems appear when you use more than one mod that modifies the same NPC face.

[SydneyB]

Fixed! You only need to pack the facegen data files under the Skyrim.esm folder and it works fine! Forget about the ones under the Mod.esp folder!

 

Now, all modders releasing mods modifying vanilla NPCs need to follow this to avoid problems :smile:

 

I am going to update my mod :wink:

 

Thanks Zilav! :)

[triptherift]

 

- Head nifs from the old game will work in the new game due to a degree of backwards compatibility and they will not exhibit the black head problem. However, if the head nif was the result of a RaceMenu/NifMerge session and includes custom mesh paths for things like eye geometry or 3rd party hair, those geometries will be missing in game. This may be an issue having to do with quads verses triangles, but I'm not sure yet.

 

 

It's a flaw in Nifmerge. It strips out the "Has Tangents" flag from the meshes that need it (everything but the head). Check the box again and the old merges work perfect.

[idioticidiot]

1.06 beta has fixed that.

[thumbincubation]

If you're talking about the beta skyrim se patch, I have just had problems with that blacking out the entire ck render window. Has something to do with it changing the shaders file. I ended up having to revert to release version and opt out of beta patches, in order to be able to use CK again. Use caution.