Andyno Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I searched the board a little because this looks like a common problem but I didn't find anything so I'm asking for help here... Here's the issue:I got an interior cell and placed a COCMarkerHeading in it. I also got a teleport (door) to/from another location.When I try to teleport here (through mentioned door) I didn't appear at the DoorMarker but at the COCMarkerHeading. Also when I walk around and reach some certain areas, it teleports me back to COCMarkerHeading. I tried to duplicate the cell and I also created a brand new cell with pasted contents of it but nothing works. And what is even more weird, when I tested the cell some months ago, I didn't noticed any problems. So the question is: What is causing this? Does this mean that my mod is completely corrupted? Please help somebody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlallen Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 There are two problems here. First, walking through a door is different from teleporting. When you teleport into a cell, you are supposed to arrive at the COCMarkerHeading, that is what it is for. When you walk through a door you enter at the door marker. So this part is the expected behavior. If you walk around and randomly teleport back to the COCMarkerHeading, that probably means your floor is missing or it has gaps. If you walk somewhere there is no floor, instead of dropping you into a bottomless pit, the game chooses to teleport you back to the entry point. So, please check for missing floor or gaps in your tiles where you have noticed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyno Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks for reply, David. This is not expected behaviour because after using the door I shouldn't appear at COCMarkerHeading. There are no gaps in the cell (at least I cannot see them). You can see the whole situation right here on this picture. The floor (where the COCMarkerHeading stands) is walkable but when I try to jump on that red rock behind, I'm suddenly teleported back. The rock has a collision so this should not happen at all. :facepalm: http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5616/18503099.th.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlallen Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Have you made doors which do not have this behavior? (Sorry if this is obvious) You need to make sure that the yellow cubic door marker is accessible. If it is not accessible then it would be the same problem as the other sudden teleport, the game tries to put you down at the yellow marker but it cannot, so it teleports you to the COCMH. Is there a valid floor under the rock? An object with collision, with no floor underneath, might still cause this behavior. You should be able to make this teleport behavior appear by temporarily removing a piece of floor. Walking there should cause the teleport. I cannot think of anything else which would cause the teleport, but I also cannot offer any more specific advice on how to discover the cause. Maybe, try removing and replacing the floor tiles under the spots where it happens? There must be something different about those spots which is causing the problem; what is different about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyno Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Of course - I have several other locations that works as they should. On other hand, this cell worked well some time ago but now something screwed up and I can't figure out what is it. I start to think that this issue will happen later in other my cells so all my almost year old work will just vanish. :facepalm: Now you got me - there's no floor under the rock. Does this really mean a problem? That doesn't make any sense because the rock has its collision, right? So how exactly the GECK is working? How the GECK knows and how it can recognize what IS floor level and what is NOT? Anyway, I uploaded my .esp here...http://www.mediafire.com/?9t0ccn93bd93i0oPlease, look at it if you have some spare time. The cell (on the picture) is "Blood03a" and the cell that leads to it is "Blood02d". EDIT: I forgot to mention that this also happens where the floor is (for example near the train tunnel in the same cell). Edited December 22, 2011 by Andyno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlallen Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Anyway, I uploaded my .esp here...Unfortunately, FOMM says that blood.esp requires dead money and lonesome road masters, which I don't own, and AWOP, which I don't have installed. Since I don't have these files I can't open your mod in either geck or fnvedit. If I could open the mod in fnvedit I could "remove unused masters", but it seems you need to have the masters in order to remove them. Perhaps somebody with these mods installed could take a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyno Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 PM sent... :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlallen Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I DL'd the one with the missing masters removed. "Blood03a" is an interior. But, it seems you are trying to make an exterior, using terrain elements and rocks, etc. In a "real" exterior, that is in a worldspace, there is a heightmap underneath everything. So a rock in a worldspace has a kind of default floor underneath it. I can't correlate the particular rock in your screenshot, to any of the dozens of rocks in your esp. So I am not sure how to find the exact rock you are referring to. However, I bet that your problem does have to do with small gaps and the lack of a real floor. I don't know the exact way to do this, but I think if you somehow put a single large "floor" of some kind underneath, you may find that your problem will go away. That is, you may find that instead of teleporting to the COCMH, you sink down onto this new "floor". I don't see any navmesh and these are huge areas; do you plan to have NPC's and creatures walking around here? Not to discourage you, but adding the navmesh seems like it would be time-consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyno Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Of course it's time consuming - that's why I'm working on the mod for almost a year... If you look at other "exterior" cells (in fact, they're all interiors), you'll see that there are much more complex areas than this one - the "Blood03a" is just one of my medium sized cells, although its radius is over 15.000 points. I also started to thing that this issue has something to do with radius limit so I reduced it a bit (originally it was 19.000) - I had several other huge cells that just keeped spawning things (statics, havokables, and everything) at COCMarkerHeading. By reducing the radius I fixed the spawning problem in these cells but not this one - it's like cursed or something. That's why I was thinking (and I probably still think) that my whole .esp is corrupted. :facepalm: The rock you cannot find is just behind the COCMarkerHeading (as it is on the picture). If you'll jump on it, you should be teleported back to COCMarkerHeading. Also the mentioned train tunnel is left of COCMarkerHeading (I mean left from default position). Try to walk around and you'll definitelly encounter something that's not right. :yes: Apropos, small gaps and real floor...Did you find some visible gaps in the cell? o_O Anyway, I'll try your suggestion about that "single large floor", I'll also try to put a collision markers at the problematic spots but I personally think it will not work. About navmesh...One of my cells has over 6.000 triangles and it's... let's say... 3/5 of all area. Of course, in the end I plan to use Advanced Navmesh Generation to simplify it but there will be still too many to compare it with any mod/cell I've seen. So the new question is: is there some triagle limit for one cell? Or how many triangles are safe to use? About worldspace...To be honest, I didn't figure out how the worldspaces are working. I think it's much more complicated than creation of interior cells. So I choose this unusual time consuming method of which I was certain it spares most of the headaches... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlallen Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The rock you cannot find is just behind the COCMarkerHeading (as it is on the picture). If you'll jump on it, you should be teleported back to COCMarkerHeading. Also the mentioned train tunnel is left of COCMarkerHeading (I mean left from default position). Try to walk around and you'll definitelly encounter something that's not right. :yes: I'll try walking around in the mod if I have time, but it may not be right away. Apropos, small gaps and real floor...Did you find some visible gaps in the cell? o_O Sorry, I did not take the time to closely scan each pixel for gaps. I suppose you can walk successfully "most places" so whatever problem there is, only occurs in a few isolated places. One of my cells has over 6.000 triangles and it's... let's say... 3/5 of all area. Of course, in the end I plan to use Advanced Navmesh Generation to simplify it but there will be still too many to compare it with any mod/cell I've seen. So the new question is: is there some triagle limit for one cell? Or how many triangles are safe to use? I have never used automatic navmesh generation, but I hope it works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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