Punishment in school?

[thekid345]

Does punishment like detention, suspension, citations, etc. really help and stop bad behavior? We have kids in the 8th grade who get dettention everyday and are always RPC'd(required parent conference). We also have the a**holes who get in trouble but for some strange reason are just told to be quiet,or even just sent to another class. Well, I am not in either of those "groups". If I even got a dettention for something i did do(whenever i do get one, It is for something i didn't do)my parents would have a massive fit. I try not to get in trouble, though i do like to mess around sometimes :blush: . Well today, i ran over to my bud and he got pushed by some ass and fell. So as always, I got blamed, and I'm at risk of getting rpcd, but thats off topic.

 

Anyways, the peeps who get in trouble regulary are constantly causing trouble.Why would teachers give out dettentions when 98% of the time, they get in trouble again 2 days later? And does the punishments given out in school really make a difference?

[WoogieMonster]

I think it depends on the individual student and the type of punishment given. You mentioned the 8th grade, when I was in 8th grade, in my area, there was no such thing as detention. We knew what it was because we saw it on Saved by the Bell, but if we got in trouble at school we would most likely get beat with a wooden paddle. If you had a low pain-threshold, then that was excellent motivation to not screw up again. For move severe offenses, your parents would be called to come take you home for a week, but it was also likely your parents would beat your butt before they took you home, adding humiliation to the suspension. Again, great motivation to not screw up. But herein lies the problem that I suspect has you so riled up: real trouble makers usually have both a high pain-threshold and a desire to get out of school for a few days, so this does not work on them.

 

There's a COMSEC saying that goes "Locked doors keep honest people honest, but they only slow down crooked people." I think it's the same idea with being punished in school, the thought of a punishment does deter good students, but it just gives bad kids something to brag about next week when their suspension is over.

[Lord Slyther]

If kids want to quit school, they won't get far in life. They wouldn't get their jobs what they wanted either. That's why you stay in school, and graduate. If you really believe in these kind of dreams being what you want to be, that's why you need to stay in school. I can't say the punishment would make them learn anything, because I doubt they would even give a s*** about school, and decide not to stay in, because it's simply boring. I know it's boring, but I'm staying in school, and finishing my 2 final grades.

[Vagrant0]

Punishment, no matter where it comes from, only works as a factor when it is accompianied by the understanding of what was done wrong, and why. However, if people are seeking out those activities, despite knowledge and understanding of the rules, they are likely only doing so for the attention it gives them. The problem is that few systems actually work with this in mind. People are given punishments without explaination, and repeat offenders are allowed to continue getting punishements and attention for those punishments. Unless the individual happens to be a sociopath of some kind, or if it is something beyond their control, if they are explained why they are being punished, and are presented with knowledge of something much worse happening should they continue, the behavior should stop. Usual methods don't work in extreme cases because they are never severe enough to warrant a change.

 

That being said, the punishment however should always be just and non-excessive in nature. If it not, it will only cause resentment and further instances of lashing out. Parent conferences don't work since there is rarely a strong parent - child connection, and the conferences really only end up taking time away from the parent's busy schedule. Afterall, who has time to beat their kids between a full time job, a part time job, and the usual chores of living. Don't forget, most of the teenage population of the United States (atleast) has been raised and conditioned for society more by Jerry Springer, and Ronald McDonnald than any actual legal guardian.

[xenxander]

In first grade, my principal had the authority to spank students who misbehaved. She even threatened me and two others with it when we acted up and it kept us in line.

 

Now it’s not allowed, which is a pussycat system if you ask me. I never fought in school because to me, being suspended for 3 days was the end of the world and even if you were the one being picked on, if you allowed yourself to get into a fight, you and anyone else involved were out – no exception and they never wanted to listen to your reason for fighting.

 

And to the ones who it didn’t matter – those students eventually didn’t get suspended any longer. Habitual juvenile delinquents will eventually not get the wrath that the first time offender gets, because the first timer was supposed to be a ‘good’ student and knows better, whereas the delinquent just can’t be taught anyway.

 

Sad, sorry state of affairs all of this - I say bring back school punishment that means something – paddles and belts, and see if students won’t learn. My sister always says, “spare the rod, spoil the child” and it’s true no matter how you slice it up.

[thekid345]

In first grade, my principal had the authority to spank students who misbehaved. She even threatened me and two others with it when we acted up and it kept us in line.

 

Now it’s not allowed, which is a pussycat system if you ask me. I never fought in school because to me, being suspended for 3 days was the end of the world and even if you were the one being picked on, if you allowed yourself to get into a fight, you and anyone else involved were out – no exception and they never wanted to listen to your reason for fighting.

 

And to the ones who it didn’t matter – those students eventually didn’t get suspended any longer. Habitual juvenile delinquents will eventually not get the wrath that the first time offender gets, because the first timer was supposed to be a ‘good’ student and knows better, whereas the delinquent just can’t be taught anyway.

 

Sad, sorry state of affairs all of this - I say bring back school punishment that means something – paddles and belts, and see if students won’t learn. My sister always says, “spare the rod, spoil the child” and it’s true no matter how you slice it up.

 

I aggree. If i get even a C on a test or dettention it is the end of the world to me. The problem is, even hitting kids at my school, it still wouldn't help one bit.

[ninja_lord666]

Punishment works in theory. In practise, not so much. In fact, in English class, I overheard a part of a conversation where one guy said to another, "Dude, you should totally come to detention today; it'll be fun." In my school, people go to detention even if they don't have to. Detention is more of a social gathering than anything. Of course, that may be due to lazy teachers :P , but I'll bet it's non-effective other places, too.

[NewtC]

No.

 

These days, it only works on the kids who aren't used to punishment. They see they don't want to go back there and change their behavior. It's more a psychological punishment than anything else. If someone who gets in trouble often is given detention, by that time the actual punishment becomes more like a background.

 

I also agree completely with thekid345.

[DarkAnsem]

Vagrant0 is the one who got it right, IMHO. Noy understanding the punishment and being punished is far worse than not being punished at all. I come from an old-fashioned priest-ruled school (now I'm in college), and tough they did not actually hit us, they had all that sort of way only a priest can have to punish you. luckily I got away in time. Apart from that, detentions and other types of punishment are far more effective and useful, corporal punishment only gets hatred, and no will to improve, only fear, and the desire to repeat what was done as soon as the punisher is not looking.

[Malchik]

The annoying thing is that some disruptive pupils can affect the concentration of those who genuinely want to learn. Maybe the pupils should sit in judgement on their peers? Or maybe not, as they might then have to sit close to each other in class.

 

Why are the troublemakers as they are? Are the subjects too hard for them and they cover inadequacy with bravado? Are the subjects too easy so they are bored to tears? Do they have undiagnosed medical problems (ADHD for instance)? Are their home lives so unhappy they seek attention by any means they can? Perhaps it can be any of these things and more. Is it reasonable to believe one punishment system will work for all?

 

Sadly in most schools there is no time to identify each pupil's needs. And probably there are not many teachers who are qualified to do so. If it's your class being disrupted a quick fix is really the only sensible solution. That is not to say teachers ignore the wider issues but these have to become acute before they have to find the time to do more.

 

When I was at school level of disruption tended to relate to the quality of the teaching. If the teacher could interest the class there was negligible disruption. And if we started to get a bit rowdy a good teacher could bring us back without resorting to punishment. Corporal punishment was virtually unheard of (though not illegal then). Any teacher who could not control a class would soon be on sick leave. Fortunately for me and my schoolmates there were very few teachers of that type. I suspect the same is true for the majority of pupils too.

 

Does punishment work? Some will for some pupils in some cases but I suspect overall it does not for those who usually get punishment. However there is an equally important corollary to the question. To what extent does the threat of punishment act as a deterrent to the 'ruly' pupils. Would taking all punishment away simply encourage milder pupils to get out of line? I don't think you can separate these points either. My own view is that there has to be the potential for giving punishment. This is what keeps many pupils in line. And of course the threat is meaningless if it is never used so it must be used. Sadly I suspect that the majority of those who are given punishment are those on whom it will have the least effect.