Fallout full mod

[sgtsnorkles]

Has anyone thought of or attempted to to a full replacement mod (s) based on Fallout 1, 2 or Tactics? If so and if available, would like to know. I am not a modder, never had the patience or time to do any modding.

But did think that with all the mods out there, doing a full conversion of those older games to FNV would be great.

thanks

[Jeoshua]

I've THOUGHT about extending the entire F:NV world to include the areas of Fallout 1 + Fallout 2.... but you know, that would be a lot of work. HUGE area, not a lot of canon location stuff really in there other than a few cities, so there isn't as much to work with as you might think. The older games gave a good sense of there being stuff everywhere, but actually it was just about 20 or so area maps per game, and a whole lot of same-y nothingness that you never actually see except in random encounters in between.

 

It would be freaking awesome, tho... I agree. I would love to see a "California Rebuilt" mod. But if "Tamriel Rebuilt" is anything to go on, it would take YEARS.

[FMod]

A lot of people thought, but no one seriously, I think.

 

It's not really a lot of work. What takes 90% of the time is creation, not implementation. If you have everything spelled out for you, it's real easy to go ahead and code it.

 

However, I don't think it would be all that amazing. Agree or disagree, but Fallout's combat system wasn't broken. FO3's and FNV's is. It's more realistic, for sure, but at just level 10, at max difficulty, with a balanced (not combat-centered) character, I could exterminate about the entire Mojave Wasteland. Except for BoS and... well, if you count Gannon family, that too. Get them just visible, aim for the head, *click*. Next.

In FO3 that would be harder due to all the supermuties, but for exterminating all humans except for BoS even level 6 would suffice.

 

Gameplay-wise, FO1 and FO2 were much more involving. Combat is actually challenging there. A port to FNV engine with its broken combat would make the games overly easy. Short travel distances aren't helping either, ruining the challenge that the V13 timer brought to the game.

[Jeoshua]

Well the whole combat/difficulty thing is easilly overcome by mods such as Project Nevada, or the Game Settings mod which works through MCM to let you tweak various GMSTs on the fly. I have it where combat is sufficiently realistic for my tastes. People go down with a few shots to the head from a 9mm sure enough... but then again so does the player character. As with anything in balance, the important part is not difficulty, it's symmetry.

 

But the actual world itself is the major stumbling point. It took Obsidian a few years to make Fallout: New Vegas. They're fairly talented and nobody knows the world better than they do, many of their staff having worked on the original Fallout games. But look at the size of what they created in those years of work. New Vegas and it's outskirts, maybe 4 or 5 square miles worth of stuff, measured by the bottle, representing about 100 square miles of actual terrain. In contrast, Fallout 2 covered as far North as Southern Oregon, and Fallout 1 ranged as far South as Los Angeles. Granted, the actual maps were way smaller, but the overworld was extremely large.

 

Even with the amount of scaling involved, and making the Fallout 1 and 2 maps scaled accordingly, that is still about 100x more terrain than New Vegas currently contains. Scaling it further down isn't really an option because the scaling would already be quite extreme, one being able to basically walk from New Vegas to The Boneyard in 3-4 days in-game time, if no time was set aside to stop for the night.

 

These are all rough figures, but might give some sense of the enormity of the task, and why nobody has taken it on quite yet. Note that I said: "YET". Someone will come along and attempt it, and I will fully support them in it and maybe even try to help! But mark my words, it will take YEARS to develop into anything really playable.

[LambentEarache]

I tried to create a Fallout 3 version of Mariposa and the Cathedral. Pretty much every Fallout 1/2 location exists in a mod. They're just not grouped together. I'm thinking I'll try and finish those two mods someday, however.

[Jeoshua]

You know.... if you just recreated the locations and quest linkages (extremely doable), and had a scripted travel thing, you could not only recreate the games, but the time-to-travel angle and the random encounter mechanism...

[FMod]

Well the whole combat/difficulty thing is easilly overcome by mods such as Project Nevada, or the Game Settings mod which works through MCM to let you tweak various GMSTs on the fly.

Excuse me for saying - but it's not. Not nearly. Not nVamp, not PN, not FOOK, not anything. At most they push the point where you are G-d (I could live with playing Terminator, but you aren't even that) a few levels up. At level 14+, only excessively careless play can get you killed.

 

I have it where combat is sufficiently realistic for my tastes. People go down with a few shots to the head from a 9mm sure enough... but then again so does the player character. As with anything in balance, the important part is not difficulty, it's symmetry.

The problem is not there.

For one, realistic combat is when people go down from 1 (one) shot to the head with a 9-mil, not a few, and so do you. Or with 1 shot from anything more powerful than a 10mm pistol, if you're wearing a helmet - they can protect from pistol rounds, but no helmet has ever existed that can stop rifle rounds (power armor might). Maybe 1.5 shots, to simulate cases of people surviving a shot to the head or jaw hits.

 

In fact, the problem is high realism in damage department... and no realism in AI department. In real life, snipers can score hundreds of kills, as long as they aren't noticed - which, in real life, takes extreme care and frequent relocation. In FNV, you have to be in the guy's face for him to notice you, so staying out of range and taking them out is a piece of cake.

 

When I first started playing FNV, I downloaded all reasonable difficulty mods I could find, then made my own, which made most creatures rip you up, maxed out AI specs, all that. Since I remembered how easy FO3 was, and wanted to avoid a repeat experience. But still at level 2->3 I managed to crawl from Goodsprings straight to Vegas, cleaned out the casinos... by level 15 I abandoned the game, because it wasn't a game anymore, it was a walkover.

 

Bethesda should have taken lessons from Operation Flashpoint, which did 100+ sq.mi. of landscape without deactivating actors, and actually worked. You could still exploit it, but at least it took some effort to do so.

 

 

In contrast, Fallout 2 covered as far North as Southern Oregon, and Fallout 1 ranged as far South as Los Angeles. Granted, the actual maps were way smaller, but the overworld was extremely large.

Not a big deal. The engine can partially auto-generate the world, like it was done in Oblivion for territories outside Cyrodiil. There are tools to finish the job. If you are just going to recreate Fallout 1 and 2, you don't need to actually design these empty territories, just auto-generate them.

[adman85]

Stop teasing people with talk of this! :P

 

I would love to see it happen. (it kinda almost did there, whatever happened to the "New California" mod)

 

As for boringness.. It's a sandbox game, so people find their own fun, if you aren't having fun, then you'll change it up (with mods) or find a new game.

 

As for "realism" I think the damage for most weapons was around the same in fallouts 1,2 and tactics, but a lot of raiders etc had only 25 - 100 health in total, so close ranged bursts would kill things a lot more quickly (plus DT was done differently), how you wanted this solved would once again come down to personal preference in gaming, and most likely, mod help.

 

The time consuming part sounds like the filling (quests, buildings, loot placement), and the navmeshing.

[TheUprightMan]

My damage model is totally, totally, totally realistic and makes the game so freaking hard.

 

I'm using PN, Realistic Headshots and RWD and the game is lethal. Super mutants in the capital wasteland (I'm using Requiem) take me down in 1 shot to the head. Likewise, I can take them down with 2/3 shots to the head, and I can take down any NPC with 1 with any gun.

 

My feller is level 20, and it's still so freaking hard. I love it.

[FMod]

My damage model is totally, totally, totally realistic and makes the game so freaking hard.

I'm using PN, Realistic Headshots and RWD and the game is lethal. Super mutants in the capital wasteland (I'm using Requiem) take me down in 1 shot to the head. Likewise, I can take them down with 2/3 shots to the head, and I can take down any NPC with 1 with any gun.

Well, I don't use RFCW, so can't comment on that. Fallout 3 was actually somewhat harder, due to a lot of action in confined spaces and pimped-out supermuties. Except for the main quest - for instance that Enclave raid on the Memorial, where the player is something like level 8, and gets to take out dozens of power armored troopers with a rusty AK-47.

 

In FNV, I don't remember when I last used a stimpak... actually never, although I did take a few healing powders at lower levels. They don't get a shot; a Ratslayer varmint rifle can take them out all the way from the edge of visibility. As it should, really - it just should be much more difficult to achieve that shot. In rare cases where the enemies do get a shot, they miss all the time with their broken weapons.

 

It also has to be balanced so that molerats don't zero your health in two bites through power armor.

 

My point here is that a direct translation of Fallout 2 to FNV engine won't be easily balanced. That church with Metzger's guards and chemicals? You can find a hill or get on a roof, take the guards out, take everyone else out as they are running out, without getting a scratch. Raiders and mafioso jumping you as you travel? They don't jump you, you jump them.

Fallout 2 also got ridiculously easy at high levels, when you got the Gauss Rifle or Bozar and high enough Small Arms skill. But that happened around level 18, not level 8.