Editing Mesh/Texture Glossiness

[kingtitan]

I have a quick question that I'm sure someone can answer for me without too much trouble for them! So I use the "Set Body" mod, and have respectively switched around some of the NPC's bodies (for variety of course). Anyway, one of the bodies (the set of meshes) is rather glossy while most of the other sets of body meshes are not. How can I go about editing the gloss level on these meshes? Some of them I would like to have more gloss for instance. I assume that I can use Nifskope without having to dabble in Blender, but I'm not too sure. If anyone needs me to provide values for reference please let me know. Thanks for the help!

 

Also I have GIMP, Blender, and Nifskope.

 

Edit: I also just realized something else that is peculiar. The gloss only takes effect on orc females when i change their body type to light guts. Other races are unaffected. However, other body variants when used on orcs don't have any visual effect. Does anyone have any idea how this is being done?

Edited December 30, 2011 by kingtitan

[Rennn]

You could try the Glossmax mod. It was designed as a tool to make things more glossy, but I think it could be used in reverse. I'm not sure how it works, but since nobody has replied yet I thought I'd tell you about it just in case it helps. It might be usless for you (it'll probably not be helpful) but just in case it helps. Edited December 30, 2011 by Rennn

[DrakeTheDragon]

From what I know, which is not much compared to some masters of body modding around here, gloss is a combination of several factors.

 

There's the "Glossiness" setting in the NiMaterialProperty of the NIFs. I don't really know its actual effect though.

The NiTexturingProperty's Apply Mode "APPLY_HILIGHT" instead of "APPLY_MODULATE" makes things super-shiny like plastic wrap is around them.

And the alpha channel of the normalmap of the skin texture currently in use serves as a local factor for specularity. Completely white, as in the translucency is completely solid, will make things very shiny, while completely black, as in completely translucent, will remove all shine. Storing the normalmap in a format without alpha channel will also lead to one of the two extremes, so it's always best to not store normalmaps without alpha to begin with.

 

That's why there's situations when the gloss is not for all races the same, as the skin textures (and their normalmaps) are different for each race.

 

What I'm not very knowledgeable about is the actual formula into which all those aspects go and in which way which of these actually affects the gloss in the outcome. But I am aware the normalmap's alpha channel plays a significant role in all of these formulas. (It also controls the local effect of special materials such as "ENVMAP" or "ENVMAP2" for environment mappings and several other features.)

[kingtitan]

Thank you both for your responses! I am currently looking into alpha channels right now and sifting through the information to figure out how to edit gloss...

 

@rennn, I actually had just looked at it right before you put your comment up, some kind soul had posted a picture on where to go within nifskope in the comments section of the mod. Very nifty! So, I would say you certainly helped me out.

 

@drakethedragon, I did find the NiMaterialProperty which I used to edit some form of gloss, but I wasn't even aware of the "apply_hilight"... will have to look into that. The alpha channel is what I am looking into right now. I'm starting to see why the gloss is much more visible on some mesh/texture combos and why it is not nearly as apparent on others. But I have to edit the normalmap, not the actual game used .dds texture? Makes sense, I'm sure I wouldn't have put that together though haha. I've especially noticed this in a recent custom race I downloaded. They glowed to all high heaven and I had no idea why...

 

So I guess my current question is (less I manage to find it on the internet first, wouldn't be the first time) how do I go about in GIMP editing the alpha channel? I'm not extremely familiar with GIMP although I have messed around with it before. I'm sure I can find something on it on the internet, but perhaps someone with a good bit of knowledge about it could help out?

 

Anyway, thanks to both of you guys for all your help thus far, I've already made a good bit of progress!

 

Edit: Basically, within GIMP, where do I need to navigate to to 1) view the "current glossiness" level and 2) where to go in order to change that value to less or more.

Edited December 30, 2011 by kingtitan

[kingtitan]

Well, perhaps it is just me, but I seem to be entirely unable to find any good tutorials on how to successfully edit the alpha channel.... If anyone can lend a helping hand, I would be eternally grateful!

[DrakeTheDragon]

Well, I'm using Paint.NET, so I can't be of much help, but I happen to have a version of Gimp on the MacBook I'm using for work and couldn't resist to give it a try.

Is it just me or is this implemented horribly overcomplicated in Gimp?!

 

So far I managed to open a normalmap in Gimp (not that great an achievement, open a file),

I can see the 4 channels "red", "green", "blue", "opacity" in the "layers, channels, brushes" dialog window,

I can check off from being displayed or edited the "red", "green" and "blue" channel and only "opacity" remains, but this is still not the same, obviously, as it's just a black canvas with semi-translucent areas, just like the complete normalmap was.

 

-snip- Sry, I thought I got it, but I was mistaken, it still didn't work out.

I really can't find an obvious way to get the real alpha channel, that is a grey-scale image without any semi-translucent areas or something, so you can edit it. There is no way to make areas less or more opaque either, so I don't see a way to edit the alpha channel in Gimp at all so far. There must be one, but it seems to be beyond my skillset (using it for the 3rd time ever) to figure out where it's hidden. :ermm: ...that's likely the cause for why I don't use Gimp myself...

Edited December 31, 2011 by DrakeTheDragon

[kingtitan]

It does seem to be pretty freaking overcomplicated in GIMP.... Is there another program (free, mind you) that would be easier to use to edit the alpha channels on the normal map? I spent at least an hour (and probably more) yesterday pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to do it in GIMP.

[DrakeTheDragon]

It does seem to be pretty freaking overcomplicated in GIMP.... Is there another program (free, mind you) that would be easier to use to edit the alpha channels on the normal map? I spent at least an hour (and probably more) yesterday pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to do it in GIMP.

 

Well... Paint.NET? :whistling:

But be careful, the webpage's full of spam now and it's hard to find the right download link! It wasn't like this back then when I downloaded it there last time.

Mind the Plugins page by all means, as there's at least a few of them you will need, like the one for opening and storing DDS files, or one with a tool like Alpha Map (make areas of the image translucent according to a grey-scale bitmap mask), as also in Paint.NET you can't edit the channels individually, but there's a huge collection of plugins to provide means for this and everything else you can think of.

 

I heard this is the case with Gimp also, but I never really cared about it much, as I have all I need already now.

[kingtitan]

Hahah I should have known that one, rhetorical question on my part!

 

Anywho, I managed to download Paint.net and its dds plugin. I noticed that there were quite a few different "alpha' related other plugins. Which one(s) do I need? Basically all I am trying to do is edit the normal maps for characters (make them more glossy or less). Which plugins make it easiest to figure out what I am doing and do it correctly? I guess a better way to phrase it would be to ask what other plugins besides the dds one do I need to get and install as well?

 

Thanks for your help DraketheDragon, you are helping me get ever closer to finishing my project!

[DrakeTheDragon]

Hmm, for some weird cause I can't deduce the names of the plugins I downloaded from the DLLs in the effects folder now.

But I can recommend one called "BoltBait's Plugin Collection" or something along that line. Should include most, if not all, features you'll need.

 

Honestly though, the number of plugins is still not too large. If there's "duplicates", as in one plugin doing the same as another, better or worse depends on personal preference, then it's only few, and usually you can read up very quickly how which of them works and make out which one you'll prefer... or, you know, simply try them both. I myself have come to use those "collections" now rather than the individual ones, because mostly there's all I need included and mainly even from the same author, meaning it "is" the same feature I'm already used to from a seperate plugin.

 

It's all personal preference, and I'll try to figure out which one's I'm using myself to give you a start, but best you can do is always "try out yourself". Installing plugins to Paint.NET is even more easy than installing mods for Oblivion. Just copy the DLLs into the "effects" or other folders, according to the manual. Next time you start the program they will automatically be loaded. Simply remove those DLLs, if you don't want the features anymore. Just play around with it like I did to find what you prefer. :thumbsup: